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Probable Cause: Now What?

US Politics & Gov't  (tags: abuse of power, court, hayes, public safety, racism, video )

- 1441 days ago -
See 1st comment.


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TomCat S (125)
Friday June 12, 2015, 12:36 pm
When I learned that community activists had filed a motion before an Ohio court to indict the police officers, who murdered Tamir Rice, I expected to wait weeks, if not months, for a decision. To my great surprise, it came in just a couple days. It was not everything I had hoped, but almost.

Past Member (0)
Friday June 12, 2015, 12:45 pm
I don't know T.C. In none of these cases has there been a conviction.
Didn't watch the video. Seen it far too many times. Sick of seeing people get killed.

David C (75)
Friday June 12, 2015, 12:49 pm

Roger G (148)
Friday June 12, 2015, 1:26 pm
noted, thanks

JL A (281)
Friday June 12, 2015, 1:30 pm
I'm glad you caught this update TC–it will be harder not to provide the Grand Jury with evidence differing from the Officers' statements at least.

Pat B (356)
Friday June 12, 2015, 2:51 pm
So very sad. I hope that all the facts are laid out on the table, so that the Grand Jury can indict these officers. A child is dead, Tamir deserves justice, as do his family and community.

Animae C (508)
Friday June 12, 2015, 4:43 pm
Noted, thanx

Joanne Dixon (37)
Friday June 12, 2015, 6:15 pm
Wow. It will be most interesting. It's hard to imagine there being a fair trial in that city and that county. The defendants certainly won't request a change of venue, nor do I see the prosecutor doing so. It's the survivors who really deserve any benefit therefrom, and I don't think they have standing to request one. If Officer Loehman can be convicted, I promise I will get off the Democratic Central Committee's back about scheduling the 2016 convention in a corrupt state. But I'll bet that promise has about as much effect as one raindrop. In the Mississippi River.

pam w (139)
Friday June 12, 2015, 6:16 pm
At least they've filed an indictment....that's an improvement.

Vivian B (169)
Friday June 12, 2015, 6:29 pm
I don't have much faith in the judicial system. They aren't the best at policing their own!

Jim P (3247)
Friday June 12, 2015, 7:18 pm
It would be wonderful if the prosecutor got some gumption and charge, indict those two officers, Officer Loehmann and Frank Garmback, with murder, involuntary manslaughter, reckless homicide, negligent homicide and dereliction of duty. Skip and by-pass the Grand Jury as they usually do not do their jobs. Charge both officers, have them arrested and go directly to a trial. No more waiting nor pussyfooting around like the prosecutor has done or the past 7 months. Get this done.


Edith B (146)
Friday June 12, 2015, 9:53 pm

I cannot understand how anyone who watches this video could consider this anything but murder. I am happy that Judge Adrine ruled the way he did and hope the prosecutor will do his job honestly. One thing that really struck me, there have been 400 police killings and only 3 indictments. From all I have seen lately, our police are out of control. They have been so militarized that they view citizens as Isis, especially if they happen to be black.


Lynn Squance (235)
Friday June 12, 2015, 11:29 pm
Justice demands that the 2 officers be charged and convicted. If the prosecutor fails to lay charges, he should also be charged . . . how's obstruction of justice? This isn't all that difficult to work through in a fair manner.

P A (117)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 12:02 am
This sounds hopeful – but as others have said who know more about local politics there than I do, it doesn't seem that justice is likely. (How on earth could a jury not convict them after watching that video?!).

Roro l (0)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 12:56 am
Thank you

Gene J (287)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 1:36 am
"The problem is that the judge did not order the prosecutor to indict, and the decision will be left to a Grand Jury."

Well, assuming the grand jury system works pretty much the same way everywhere, I simply can't see how anyone who looks at that video can conclude anything except that child was murdered in cold blood. I've seen several versions of the video and there is nothing there but truth. They didn't pull up to the curb and demand he get down or try anything except to drive right up to the pavilion, the one fool jumped out and shot him in seconds. The evidence is so compelling that even in bright red Ohio a citizen jury has to return an indictment and I'd expect that to happen pretty darn fast too. The boys in blue and the people in black have collided far too many times these past couple years - that simply has to stop and there has to be accountability. Let it begin here.

Lona Goudswaard (66)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 3:25 am
The English language probably has a saying too about justice (as in "law) having been spoken, doesn't mean is has been just. Given the constraints of the little used law the community activists found to further their cause, Judge Ronald Adrine probably dit the best he could under the circumstances and with the powers allowed him. The speed with which he drew his conclusions that there was probable cause to charge both police officers further underlined that he thought it was a clear cut case, in which, however, he had no power to convict, nor order prosecution. This must make it very hard for the prosecutor and a grand jury to ignore it.

If nothing comes of it because it is either ignored by the prosecutor or the grand jury thinks there's no probable cause after watching the video, then Cleveland beter get ready for protests and riots by a black community which has had more than enough of bigoted "law and order" in their town.

Past Member (0)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 3:36 am
Noted, thanks TomCat. I think they'll convict---partly because of civic unrest and the public's increasing push for the video does display the ugly truth.....the ugly truth that is oft repeated and not caught on video.

Roslyn M (26)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 4:24 am
Noted - justice does exist sometimes.

Arielle S (313)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 8:23 am
Well, duh, and it only took what... 6 months to come to this much decision? Can they bury this poor boy now?
Probably not. Justice is hardly swift in these cases and not always just. I remain disgusted over it all...

Winn Adams (179)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 12:23 pm
Blessings to the Rice Family. I pray their is justice on behalf of this child.

TomCat S (125)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 1:34 pm
Thanks all. My concern is that a prosecutor could withhold both the judges findings and the video from the Grand Jury. Police have a long history of punishing prosecutors who go after criminal cops by screwing up their testimony, in other cases, so the prosecutor can't get convictions.

Janis K (129)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 3:21 pm
Thanks for sharing.

Helga Ganguly (138)
Saturday June 13, 2015, 7:15 pm
Have they finally stopped demanding $18,000 for storage costs for the Tamir's body? Disgraceful. Disrespectful.Disagreeable.Discouraging.

Mitchell D (82)
Sunday June 14, 2015, 11:00 am

TomCat S (125)
Sunday June 14, 2015, 12:02 pm
Thanks all. Helga, I honestly don't know.

Katie & Bill D (107)
Sunday June 14, 2015, 9:13 pm
Thank You TomCat
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