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US Politics & Gov't  (tags: class warfare, economy, progressive issues, Robert Reich, video )

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TomCat S (124)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 2:05 pm
Way back when I was in college, I wrote a paper for my Economics class, in which I suggested that structural unemployment would increase to the extent that after fifty years, there would be far more job seekers than there are jobs. I said the causes would be automation and the development of third world manufacturing. That was fifty years ago. I also determined that it would cause economic distress, because too many unemployed people would not have the income to buy those third world and automation products. Does this sound familiar? I suggested that since the needed jobs don’t exit, the solution is to change the manner in which we distribute wealth. I’ve mentioned this over the years from time to time. Other minds have fallen into the same ditch, and people are talking about it again.

JL A (281)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 2:15 pm
It works well in Denmark, et al, which is usually among the top countries for happiness...far simpler than the piecemeal approach leaving gaps, hard to apply for and harder to keep with the changing and different rules wherever you live.

Kathleen M (208)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 2:16 pm
UBI seems like a brilliant idea! Thx for sharing TC.

David C (75)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 2:32 pm
I'm all for the UBI

Joanne Dixon (37)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 2:47 pm
Well, I have always thought that people who worked at a paying job when they were financially secure enough not to need to were terrible selfish, for they were taking a livelihood from someone who needed it. But I also believe that most people, freed from the necessity of working to pay necessities, would still work at something, and that something would probably be more creative than a job that was taken specifically to get money. I was often asked while employed whether I would still knit if I became indepently wealthy, and my reply was always sure, but I would use better yarns. Well, I am not independently wealthy, just retired - and I am not using the quality of yarn I would use if I were independently wealthy - but with more freedom and time to look around for the best deals, I am using better yarns than I used to.

I might note that Edward Bellamy's novel Looking Backward, a lesser-known cousin of Thomas More's Utopia dnd Samuel Butler's Erewhon, has financial ideas very similar to UBI - administered through a system very much like modern debit cards.


Pat B (354)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 2:47 pm
WOW! I'm impressed !!
Sounds really good to me.

Thanks, Tom for this. Passing on too.

Ted W (127)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 2:51 pm
Noted, forwarded and shared ultra-liberally across four networks!!!! UBI seems like a very good idea!! RESIST!! Many thanks for this very excellent post, TolmCat!!

Peggy B (43)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 3:07 pm
Interesting. TYFS

Nita L (127)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 3:52 pm
My father and I used to discuss this very thing in the 70's. Thank you TomCat.

Glennis Whitney (393)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 6:22 pm
Very interesting the way to go Thank you for caring and sharing TomCat

Walter F (128)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 7:12 pm
The old socialist maxim Marx repeated in his critique of the Gotha programme'from each according to his ability and to each according to his need .'is as pertinent today as it was a century ago A democratic welfare state , allowing free enterprise capitalism is still the only way go I'm glad to live in a country that follows that path to a large extent. This land and its government have faults but Iit''s still number one.

Mitchell D (82)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 8:10 pm
UBI sounds good, but I do not think it will counter selfishness…would love to be wrong, though.

Katie & Bill D (107)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 8:41 pm
Thank you TomCat


Lona G (66)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 10:50 pm
Since the seventies, the UBI idea surfaces in the Netherlands every time we’re on the ascending flank of economic growth – which is the right time to implement it, by the way – but has never made it to other than a plan supported by most, in theory of course. But as the Dutch, like everyone else, shifted from Social Democracy a little further to the right with each election, the enthusiasm waned, and no government ever has made it into a national priority. At this point in time I don’t expect any new (right-wing) government even to acknowledge it as an idea.

I think it was economically very well to do Switzerland which put in to the people as a referendum during their last elections. It didn’t get the vote however, mainly because many/most Swiss thought it was a reasonable idea until they realized that a small but growing number of immigrants would also benefit from the UBI…

While there is no will to implement it nationally in the Netherlands, two or three large cities are going through a trial period in which people who have been on benefits for a long time, but were never able to find a job or hold one for a longer period of time, are given an UBI, i.e. a basic, and I mean basic, income without strings attached. Many have started doing volunteer work or do some little paid jobs to give themselves a little luxury. Because that’s how it works: a UBI will let you live a life with simple food on the table, cheap clothes on your back, in basic accommodation and sure of healthcare and that’s enough for some. If you want more, you work to earn it, which most will do.

Besides simple greed, envy and bigotry, there are other reason why UBI doesn’t get of the ground. One is that as long as not all drudgery, dangerous or filthy work is automated, big and small entrepreneurs will no longer be able to find anyone to do those jobs for the money they’re paid now. No one would need to, right? I don’t think many will have the mindset it takes to re-evaluate all work and have people who pick tomatoes, pick up the trash or work down the mines earn more than bank mangers.😈. Another is that an UBI should be given to all people above a certain age, which would mean that women would get their own independence, whether they chose to stay at home and look after the kids or to have a career. Of course it would give men the opportunity to chose either option too, but I don’t think the GOP is partial to independent women or housemen. 😈

Lona G (66)
Tuesday August 15, 2017, 10:56 pm
@JLA: Denmark has never implemented UBI at a national level, but has run some (successful) trials at local levels. Some of them may still be running.

Lynn Squance (235)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 12:32 am
I like the idea and |I know it has been casually talked about here.  Of course during Harper’s reign, it was a “no go”.  For seniors receiving Canada Pension and/or Old Age Security, if the total income from all sources is less than a certain amount annually, the elder may then qualify for the Guaranteed Income Supplement.

In the US, with so many Republicans in Congress and the state governments, I cannot see it happening at all.  Hell, they can’t even produce an affordable  or universal healthcare plan and UBI is much bigger.  They’d rather give it to the wealthy.

Resist and Persist!!!

Winn A (179)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 6:44 am
Thanks TC

Trish K (29)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 7:36 am
What a group of knowledgeable, smart and thoughtful people in this room. It's a nice place to relax, think and read. Thanks

Ed Site Issues V (198)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 8:25 am
Noted, Thanks

Dot A (180)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 9:42 am
Sadly, such an ideal of fair-monies distributed across the land is out of our reach, on many levels. Just observe the chaos of today. Our higher consciousness is not operating enough for the success of such a system. Instead of intelligent compassion gaining ground, our lesser consciousness of fear, greed, and anger are operating, and with Trumpelstiltskin at the helm, - those lesser qualities are exploding. We didn't even get into the corruption of all systems which inevitably creeps into the concept. We, as a populous, just aren't wise enough and well-disciplined enough for any such fair-minded system to succeed for an extended time. I hope that someday the human race can achieve higher mind-sets, - but we seem to be a long way from reaching that goal today. Perhaps all the chaos and difficulties we're facing could inspire our world to begin organizing systems that are closer to this better sharing of the necessities of life. I like the concept and feel it is achievable as we advance, since so many have similar fair-minded ideas.
Thanks, Tom Cat, always~

Barb SiteIssues V (202)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 10:30 am
Noted, Thank you

TomCat S (124)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 1:17 pm
Thanks, hugs and stars to all. I had envisioned a sliding scale that decrased slightly less than income increased.
Dot, I agree that it is out of reach for now, but we need to propose ideas that are out of reach to show how much more we have to offer than the Reich.

Dot A (180)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 2:56 pm
Hi Tom Cat, - I am in total agreement, and I hope you read my comment as such. Indeed, it is the innovators who will resolve the stinking mess we've gotten into as corruption has broken down the foundation of what a capitalistic society 'ought' to be. I suppose my emphasis was intended to be on the emotional intelligence to get the next better system to work for the great good of a greater holistic goal . Sadly, our moral character in modern society isn't addressed often enough in an age of materiality. Money is a fine invention, but it's best asset is as a convenience of trading goods and services. Those who value status, power, prestige, sexual delusions, enjoy the fantasy that money holds out to them in temptation and empty promises. Of course, those superficial goals only leave the emptiness of the greedy with a greater sense of deficit, because superficial goals can never fulfill our sense of purpose, meaning, and true value of our higher consciousness. Ask those who've sought fame for fame's sake, - I believe they'll convey their sorrows that fame did not fulfill their deeper needs. We've got all the carts before the horses. Finding our greater purpose, and helping others find theirs along the way will assist in whatever new structure our humanity devises. If we keep going the way we are, the destruction from it all will do so much harm that the earth cannot thrive, and life upon the lands and seas will dissolve. If we think in terms of inclusiveness, and us our minds to care for it all, we can provide a good life for this world, and the living. That includes whatever 'value' we set for our work, our services, our participation, our contributions to a better 'whole' world, not the 'one' of oneself alone. We've got to broaden our objective. To include that a good life includes not just family, but neighbors, neighborhoods, cities and towns, districts, nations and continents. When we think of the good-will for the many we'll find the best life for ourselves. We are all woven in this tapestry together. Once we embrace our collective good, we will be on a firmer foundation to a better future, I believe. Thanks for your response, and a chance to explain a little better, Tom Cat~ I hope you see that I also like to think in an innovation way*

Jim Ven (0)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 3:00 pm
thanks for sharing

Jerome S (0)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 3:03 pm

Colleen L (3)
Wednesday August 16, 2017, 8:14 pm
Interesting. Sound great. Thanks TomCat

TomCat S (124)
Thursday August 17, 2017, 2:03 pm
Thanks all. Kudos to Dot.

Animae C (508)
Tuesday August 22, 2017, 7:18 am
Clever Kitty!!!!

Margie FOURIE (148)
Thursday August 31, 2017, 2:29 am
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