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Waiting on ICC, Israeli War Crimes Suspects Already Fear Arrest Abroad


World  (tags: Israel, Israeli politicians, War Criminals, Arrests, Immunity )

Eleonora
- 1393 days ago - middleeastmonitor.com
Over the last two weeks, two Israeli war crimes suspects entered the UK. One, former Israeli minister Tzipi Livni, received diplomatic immunity in dubious circumstances. A second, former Israeli army chief of staff Shaul Mofaz, visited for just 48 hours



   

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Comments

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Saturday June 27, 2015, 5:35 pm

Personally I hope to live long enough to see the one sitting in the bathtub being indicted. The picture of him sitting in The Hague must be truly gratifying!
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Saturday June 27, 2015, 5:36 pm

[Please also follow the many hyperlinks in the article itself]!

Waiting on ICC, Israeli war crimes suspects already fear arrest abroad

by Ben White
Saturday, 27 June 2015 17:29

Over the last two weeks, two Israeli war crimes suspects entered the UK. One, former Israeli minister Tzipi Livni, received diplomatic immunity in dubious circumstances. A second, former Israeli army chief of staff Shaul Mofaz, visited for just 48 hours and left before the authorities acted. These visits have prompted three questions.

The first question is for the FCO. Livni, an opposition MK, came to London to speak at Fortune's Most Powerful Women International Summit. Since this would have constituted a personal visit, rather than an official one, Livni arranged a meeting with Foreign Office (FCO) minister Tobias Ellwood. The FCO then duly granted the visit 'special mission' status, and thus gave Livni immunity from prosecution.

This latest episode further damages the credibility of the FCO. Already last year, there was "growing concern over the government's issuing of special mission status, and the secrecy surrounding such moves." There continues to be a troubling lack of transparency about the criteria used by the FCO in determining who is eligible for Special Mission immunity (and for what kind of visit).

The clumsy way in which Livni's 2011 visit was handled illustrates the murky nature of the FCO approach. The Foreign Secretary's written statement in 2013, defining a special mission as "a temporary mission, representing a state, which is sent by one state to another with the consent of the latter, in order to carry out official engagements on behalf of the sending state", is insufficient.

This is because the FCO has not set any redlines, meaning that anyone, no matter how grave the war crimes they are suspected of having committed, can be granted immunity. In addition, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) must check on an individual basis with the FCO whenever the police contemplate making an arrest or a judicial arrest warrant is sought, a process that is both inefficient and, potentially compromising to confidentiality.

The second question is for the CPS. In the case of Mofaz, lawyers representing Palestinian victims told me that, in response to their approach, the CPS not only ignored the ordinary threshold necessary for arrest by the police, they also mis-applied the charging test when considering granting court access for a judicial arrest warrant. Lawyers working on the case were confident that a prima facie case against Mofaz had been presented, and that any queries could have been ironed out, following a police arrest.

The third question is for Israeli officials. Mofaz claimed his early return to Israel was for personal reasons, though Channel 2 thought otherwise. Others have maintained that the prospect of arrest is minimal, and the risk has been exaggerated. But the reality is that Israeli officials have never been confident enough to truly test the system: those liable to be arrested visit with special mission immunity, come on whistle-stop visits, or cut short their stays.

Mofaz apparently proceeded with his visit "in spite of advice" from Israeli government officials, claiming that were he not to participate in the conference, it would be "a 100 percent victory" for those seeking his arrest. Livni, meanwhile, declared that she is "not afraid", and "ready to pay the price" for her actions – yet, she has not risked a visit to the UK without immunity since her arrest warrant was issued in 2009.

The day after Mofaz's hasty departure, former Israeli naval commander Eliezer Marom penned an op-ed in Maariv on the threat of arrest still faced by Israeli officials (thanks to Ofer Neiman for translation). Marom, who was in charge during the Mavi Marmara assault and 'Operation Cast Lead', recounted how in 2013 he himself was questioned on arrival at Heathrow Airport.

Marom noted that the 2011 change in UK law has not ruled out the possibility of arrest, and describes how Israel's Justice Ministry has a dedicated section "dealing with the defence of heads of the security establishment against lawsuits in various states across the world."

This [was done] in order to allow former officers to continue to maintain their life routine and travel to foreign states. Army officers against whom an investigation is being conducted are required to coordinate their travels with the Ministry of Law, to avoid embarrassing incidents.

Marom concluded that despite various efforts to date, "incidents" of delays, interrogations, "and sometimes the risk of arrest", will "continue to accompany" former and present Israeli officials. This tallies with Israeli assessments since 2011; responding to a cancelled trip by Doron Almog in 2012, an anonymous senior Israeli official admitted that the while the "new British law is better than the original one", they "couldn't fully guarantee [Almog] an arrest warrant would not be issued again".

Contrast the visits of Livni and Mofaz with the arrest in London of Rwandan military general Karenzi Karake on behalf of Spanish authorities. A Human Rights Watch researcher expressed hopes that Karake's arrest "could be a really important in terms of accountability" since "many senior officials in Rwanda have never been held to account." When it comes to Israel, however, it is a different story.

According to Kristyan Benedict, Amnesty International UK's Crisis Manager, it is "well known" that "UK authorities are content to undermine efforts to bring alleged Israeli war criminals to justice." For Benedict, such "efforts to undermine international justice and entrench impunity are one of the main reasons this terrible conflict continues year after year."

Benedict also suggested that the "next test for how seriously the UK values international justice" would be the government's response to Palestinian efforts to seek justice "via the International Criminal Court."

At the time of the change in law – a change entirely the result of Israel's demands and the pressure of its UK-based lobby groups – the British government announced that the system would be "no longer open to abuse by people seeking warrants for grave crimes on the basis of scant evidence to make a political statement or to cause embarrassment." No examples of this 'abuse' were given.

But the government also claimed that "those accused of these grave crimes will still be brought to justice if there is sufficient evidence against them"." In 2013, the government emphasised that any application for special mission status "is considered carefully in view of...our policy of ending impunity for the most serious of international crimes." These commitments ring hollow every time Britain helps an Israeli war crimes suspect evade justice.

 

Past Member (0)
Saturday June 27, 2015, 8:39 pm
Eleonora, faking pictures is not right. Why did you do that, especially that the article is not about Netaniyahu.

You should not resort to dirty Pallywood tricks because it undermines your credibility from those who doesn't know you yet.
 

fly b (26)
Saturday June 27, 2015, 9:27 pm
... it's "not right to" to be keep diverting, LOL

Where Palestine and Gaza are concerned, it's always about the yahu psycho maniac, who has no scruples and just wants more $BILLIONS of American taxpayers' hard earned money to finance his apartheid government and thefts of Palestinian resources, lands and way of life - not to mention, the Israeli 'trigger happy' 'army' and occupation forces.

End the illegal occupation of Palestine and siege of Gaza - End all U.S. aid to Israel.

BDS, yes! Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions!!

'Credibility' is not relevant, when raised by people pushing hasbara and other lies and cover ups.
Thanks, Eleonora. Good post.
 

fly b (26)
Saturday June 27, 2015, 9:29 pm
For Benedict, such "efforts to undermine international justice and entrench impunity are one of the main reasons this terrible conflict continues year after year."
 

Evelyn B (63)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:59 am
"Faking"? A cartoon is a satirical statement, it is clearly a drawing not a "fake". As with most political satire, some people will laugh, others will take offence - but ironically, some of those scream against "offensiveness" of those that touch on things important to them but are highly critical of anyone so stupid as to take offence when (for example) religious principles are mocked .....

But how can a cartoon be a fake - unless falsely attributed to a great cartoonist?

Nowhere does C2NN require that the image come from the article. Indeed, Care2 even encourages one to formulate carefully the title ..... which indicates that even the title for the story page does not have to be a copy & paste of the original title! (Just as well, since some titles are excessively long ..... and brevity can be more useful to make it easily read.) If you have proof of the contrary - produce it, Bob .....
I have asked Care2, and your boringly repetitive criticism when you don't like an image selected has not been endorsed. So the image here is neither a fake nor a lie. It is just a satirical image that you do not like.

As for not seeing any relevance in an image of BN here ...... :>D
Could anyone believe that BN's visits to the UK are not systematically provided with special mission immunity?

Thanks, Eleonora, for this article. Valid questions raised ....
 

Angelika R (143)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 5:00 am
."ring hollow " .. exactly, and likely will continue producing this sound. Lap dogs will be lap dogs, the only way we'll see any change would be if their master's voice changes the tune. Which we have yet to witness.
Thanks Eleonora..and ..what an appropriate image!
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 7:35 am
Yes Bob, I remember Eleanor moaning about it to me. In other words, it's OK for a Muslim to lie/taqiyya which this is in spades, but no-one else.

By the way, the war crimes have been continually committed by Hamas, Fatah and the PA but I have yet to hear any of you speak out against the suffering of the civilians in Gaza. But then there are a fake people invented by the Arabs who want nothing to do with them except as propaganda. Well done for following their wishes and FOR NOT SPEAKING .POUT FOR THEM IN THE MUSLIM CONTROLLED COUNTRIES WHO BREAK INTERNATIONAL LAW BY REFUSING TO GIVE THEM THE DIGNITY OF THEIR OWN PASSPORTS AND RIGHT OF THE COUNTRIES IN WHICH THEY LIVE. NOR DO I SEE YOU POINTING OUT THAT THEY DO HAVE A COUNTRY, IT'S CALLED JORDAN.
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 7:39 am
Yes, the Palestinians live under apartheid in the Muslim controlled countries and are now being brutalised by the Islamic State. Not one of these Muslim controlled countries INCLUDING EGYPT open their doors to them. Why? I am reliably told by other Muslims, including Egyptian ones, that they consider them no better than cockroaches. I couldn't believe it to begin with but repitition brought it.

I ahve also yet to hear Eleanor condemn the behaviour of her people in their abuses against the Palestinians in Gaza. I can only assume that she believes it to be perfectly acceptable.
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 7:49 am
Has anyone noticed that there are dozens of terrorists attacks daily and that they are all committed by Muslims and that includes France, Tunisia and Kuwait?

Islam is a violent religion calling for death against the non-Muslim and it is extended by extremists against those of the wrong kind of Islam or those who aren't strict enough yet all I see hear are a Greek chorus saying how terrible Israel is. But Jews do not invade countries committing riots, murder and mayhem but people with the same religion as eleanor does and she doesn't condemn them. Funnily enough, neither does the rest of the chorus.

Speaks volumes.
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 8:45 am
“I came to the absolute conviction that it is impossible…impossible…for any human being to read the biography of Mohammed and believe in it, and then emerge a psychologically and mentally healthy person.”

- Syrian Psychiatrist Dr. Wafa Sultan
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 8:57 am
Judge Davis suggests that the I.D.F.’s use of air, tank and artillery fire in populated areas may constitute a war crime and recommends further international legal restrictions on their use. Yet these same systems were used extensively by American and British forces in similar circumstances in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are often vital in saving the lives of our own soldiers, and their curtailment would jeopardize military effectiveness while handing an advantage to our enemies.

The I.D.F. is not perfect. In the heat of battle and under stress its commanders and soldiers undoubtedly made mistakes. Weapons malfunctioned, intelligence was sometimes wrong and, as with all armies, it has some bad soldiers. Unnecessary deaths resulted, and these should be investigated and the individuals brought to trial if criminal culpability is suspected.

The reason so many civilians died in Gaza last summer was not Israeli tactics or policy. It was Hamas’s strategy. Hamas deliberately positioned its fighters and munitions in civilian areas, knowing that Israel would have no choice but to attack them and that civilian casualties would result. Unable to inflict existential harm on Israel by military means, Hamas sought to cause large numbers of casualties among its own people in order to bring international condemnation and unbearable diplomatic pressure against Israel.

Judge Davis’s report is rife with contradictions. She acknowledges that Israeli military precautions saved lives, yet without foundation accuses “decision makers at the highest levels of the government of Israel” of a policy of deliberately killing civilians. Incredibly, she “regrets” that her commission was unable to verify the use of civilian buildings by “Palestinian armed groups,” yet elsewhere acknowledges Hamas’s widespread use of protected locations, including United Nations schools.

Most worrying, Judge Davis claims to be “fully aware of the need for Israel to address its security concerns” while demanding that it “lift, immediately and unconditionally, the blockade on Gaza.” Along with the report’s endorsement of Hamas’s anti-Israel narrative, this dangerous recommendation would undoubtedly lead to further bloodshed in both Israel and Gaza.

Richard Kemp, a retired British Army colonel, is former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan.
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 8:59 am
S a British officer who had more than his share of fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Balkans, it pains me greatly to see words and actions from the United Nations that can only provoke further violence and loss of life. The United Nations Human Rights Council report on last summer’s conflict in Gaza, prepared by Judge Mary McGowan Davis, and published on Monday, will do just that.

The report starts by attributing responsibility for the conflict to Israel’s “protracted occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip,” as well as the blockade of Gaza. Israel withdrew from Gaza 10 years ago. In 2007 it imposed a selective blockade only in response to attacks by Hamas and the import of munitions and military matériel from Iran. The conflict last summer, which began with a dramatic escalation in rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians, was a continuation of Hamas’s war of aggression.

In an unusual concession, the report suggests that Hamas may have been guilty of war crimes, but it still legitimizes Hamas’s rocket and tunnel attacks and even sympathizes with the geographical challenges in launching rockets at Israeli civilians: “Gaza’s small size and its population density make it particularly difficult for armed groups always to comply” with the requirement not to launch attacks from civilian areas.

There is no such sympathy for Israel. Judge Davis accuses the Israel Defense Forces of “serious violations of international humanitarian law and international human rights law.” Yet no evidence is put forward to substantiate these accusations. It is as though the drafters of the report believe that any civilian death in war must be illegal.

Referring to cases in which Israeli attacks killed civilians in residential areas, Judge Davis says that in the absence of contrary information available to her commission, there are strong indications that the attacks were disproportionate, and therefore war crimes. But all we get is speculation and the presumption of guilt.

The report is characterized by a lack of understanding of warfare. That is hardly surprising. Judge Davis admitted, when I testified before her in February, that the commission, though investigating a war, had no military expertise. Perhaps that is why no attempt has been made to judge Israeli military operations against the practices of other armies. Without such international benchmarks, the report’s findings are meaningless.

The commission could have listened to Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff, who said last November that the I.D.F. had taken extraordinary measures to try to limit civilian casualties. Or to a group of 11 senior military officers from seven nations, including the United States, Germany, Spain and Australia, who also investigated the Gaza conflict recently. I was a member of that group, and our report, made available to Judge Davis, said: “None of us is aware of any army that takes such extensive measures as did the I.D.F. last summer to protect the lives of the civilian population.”

The report acknowledges that Israel took steps to warn of imminent attacks but suggests more should have been done to minimize civilian casualties. Yet it offers no opinion about what additional measures Israel could have taken. It even criticizes Israel for using harmless explosive devices — the “knock on the roof” — as a final warning to evacuate targeted buildings, suggesting that it created confusion. No other country uses roof-knocks, a munition developed by Israel as part of a series of I.D.F. warning procedures, including text messages, phone calls and leaflet drops, that are known to have saved many Palestinian lives.

Continue reading the main story
RECENT COMMENTS

jlalbrecht 23 hours ago
“Judge Davis suggests that the I.D.F.’s use of air, tank and artillery fire in populated areas may constitute a war crime and recommends...
Oscar Pockle 23 hours ago
Thank the heavens that there are still men with integrity / military officers with experience / articulate people with courage! I truly...
Brian Knowlton 23 hours ago
Just a wee bit biased you think ?
SEE ALL COMMENTS
Judge Davis suggests that the I.D.F.’s use of air, tank and artillery fire in populated areas may constitute a war crime and recommends further international legal restrictions on their use. Yet these same systems were used extensively by American and British forces in similar circumstances in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are often vital in saving the lives of our own soldiers, and their curtailment would jeopardize military effectiveness while handing an advantage to our enemies.

The I.D.F. is not perfect. In the heat of battle and under stress its commanders and soldiers undoubtedly made mistakes. Weapons malfunctioned, intelligence was sometimes wrong and, as with all armies, it has some bad soldiers. Unnecessary deaths resulted, and these should be investigated and the individuals brought to trial if criminal culpability is suspected.

The reason so many civilians died in Gaza last summer was not Israeli tactics or policy. It was Hamas’s strategy. Hamas deliberately positioned its fighters and munitions in civilian areas, knowing that Israel would have no choice but to attack them and that civilian casualties would result. Unable to inflict existential harm on Israel by military means, Hamas sought to cause large numbers of casualties among its own people in order to bring international condemnation and unbearable diplomatic pressure against Israel.

Judge Davis’s report is rife with contradictions. She acknowledges that Israeli military precautions saved lives, yet without foundation accuses “decision makers at the highest levels of the government of Israel” of a policy of deliberately killing civilians. Incredibly, she “regrets” that her commission was unable to verify the use of civilian buildings by “Palestinian armed groups,” yet elsewhere acknowledges Hamas’s widespread use of protected locations, including United Nations schools.

Most worrying, Judge Davis claims to be “fully aware of the need for Israel to address its security concerns” while demanding that it “lift, immediately and unconditionally, the blockade on Gaza.” Along with the report’s endorsement of Hamas’s anti-Israel narrative, this dangerous recommendation would undoubtedly lead to further bloodshed in both Israel and Gaza.

Richard Kemp, a retired British Army colonel, is former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan.
 

Evelyn B (63)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 9:05 am
You do seem to have annoyed the hasbarats & Islamophobes, Eleonora!
And, as usual - largely trying to deviate from the subject ....
 

Carrie B (306)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 11:11 am
Faking a picture? What picture? I see a 'political cartoon', which accurately portrays 'Butcher Ben'. Thank you Eleonora for an excellent post.
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:05 pm

Someone’s keyboard seems to have diarrhea … while it is still disputed whether or not probiotics are effective against dysentery what I know to be helpful if one has a bout of the runs are 1) Bananas, 2) rice and mashed potatoes, 3) Yoghourt nature, 4) steamed chicken, 5) Chamomile … now I wonder: can this … and if yes: how? … be applied to a keyboard??
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:13 pm

Hi Bob – I’m happy that you don’t disappoint me! I took out a bet that you’ll chip in with your usual line and I won – thank you.

Sorry but the cartoon is not fake and is properly credited as you may see if you enlarge it. It’s all there to be legally correct. As for the rest of your comment – I assume where you live they do know such a strange thing like “Freedom of Expression” and “Freedom of Speech”, don’t they? You know that's this strange "thing" they constantly invoke if and when the subject is "Islam/Muslims" - then there can't be enough of it!!

There’s one small detail though on which I agree with you is fake in this cartoon – Bibi wears the cut in his hair on the left side!! But I believe it doesn’t take away from his natural beauty. I do think though that he’d be well advised to go on a diet for a while as he seems to become a bit full around his belly, what do you think? I know men are the only creatures who believe that walking down the streets in shorts and big belly hanging out is sexy … but I’m don’t see it that way. Yet – if Sarah-leben likes it … who am I to judge?

 

Evelyn B (63)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:17 pm
Oh, Eleonora - have you not discovered the real "miracle" treatment for stomach ailments?
Isabgol husk (also called Ispaghol, Ispaghula, Psyllium seed husks, Plantago ovata) - the West tends to see this as for treating constipation, but on the Sub-Continent everyone knows that taken with water it treats constipation - but taken in yoghurt it is extremely effective for dysentery and all diarrhoeas. Ideal for travellers - one medecine, two totally different problems treated depending on the medium used for swallowing it!! It's part of my basic kit!!

I don't know how one can treat a keyboard with it, however .....
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:27 pm

Ah Evelyn - that's my favorite pass time ... to annoy those nice people - LOL!

What I always love in their attempts to divert the discussion from the subject at hand - i.e. how Western governments help Israeli war criminals to escape justice while at the same time making a big fuss about Bashir leaving SA under his granted status of immunity (where's the difference other than that he is not Jewish Israeli??) - and at the same time showing their absolute ignorance of what's going on in the Arab world on the ground. In the same vein goes their constant mis-use of Arabic words which they have been fed once and have no clue how and when and by whom it is to be used ... like Taqiyah or Dawah. It's not even worth to rebut their arguments because - as we've seen in the past - just one week later they come back with the same "sophisticated and well evidenced" argument. So what's the point?

Back to the subject of t his discussion: I'm always astonished how laws are bent and twisted to suit some Zionist wishes. We've seen this in Spain where they were "kindly asked" to change their laws in order not to have a repeat of the Pinochet Trials ... but with Israeli politicians. We see it in England and we see it in the USofA.

How can we blame "normal" petty criminals if they try their very best to circumvent the laws if war criminals get away with it? It truly seems to be the mantra that the bigger the crime the safer is the one committing it. Weird though that this didn't apply to Milosovic, Saddam Hussein, etc.

Do we see different standards once again?


 

Carol R (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:29 pm
Evelyn and Eleonora***************************************************************** Best laughs I've had today! And an excellent article, thanks!
 

Angelika R (143)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:32 pm
OOPs - I thought some previous comments further up were shitty enough already ? Let's not addt more ;)
Besides, the probem isn't the keyboard but the brain ..and perhaps the bank account too.. maybe the Isabgol miracle can help there as well .
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:33 pm

Our postings have crossed in cyberspace - thank Evelyn! A dear friend of mine wouldn't travel if she doesn't have Isabgol husk with her - that's how effective it is. But again ... how do we apply this to a keyboard?

Angelika - I'm glad you like the cartoon ;-).

Carry - there are still people (like Bob) who need to learn the difference between a picture and a cartoon. I made once a remark to Penny dear about how well the picture she chose for an article was photo-shopped as the original was also available online. If memory serves me right it was from Pamela Geller's website ... well, what do we expect from THAT source?!

I wonder now ... could it be that the little Dawah Ghost has any similarities with the cartoon I chose ...??!!
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:38 pm

Angelika!!! You mean there's something called "brain" too in this issue?? Thanks for letting me know ... who would have guessed that?
 

Lona G (66)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:40 pm
Thanks for posting, Eleonora. Good article and good comments by some.
 

Angelika R (143)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 12:57 pm
I did NOT say "*in* the brain"! The problem IS the brain, the missing, I should have said. Btw, was it Penny or, if I'm not mistaken, another of the troops who always misspelled your name like that?;)
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 1:15 pm
How can it be deviating from the subject when I have just proven that you are anti-Semitic and anti-Palestinian welfare as well as proving that Israel has not been properly represented and that you are perpetrating Muslim propaganda?

All you are doing is ignoring the atrocities committed by Egyptians against the Palestinians in Gaza, the atrocities committed by terrorists against civilians both Palestinian and Israeli, and blaming Israel for existing.

You do not deny any of this at any time so it must be true.
 

Gillian M (11)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 1:23 pm
Egyptians murder Christians in Egypt, where is the outrage from anyone here? Why do you not speak out?
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 1:26 pm
From the comment above: "... the atrocities committed by Egyptians against the Palestinians in Gaza ..."

That's exactly what I meant when I said: "It's not even worth to rebut their arguments because - as we've seen in the past - just one week later they come back with the same "sophisticated and well evidenced" argument. So what's the point?" As if to prove my point the same nonsense is repeated ... so really ... what's the point?

Angelika - I did understand you correctly, don't worry. I know that this mass called "the brain" is either not present (in most cases) or has been shelved loooong time ago ;-). And yes - the spelling is always a good indicator as to whom one is really talking to - LOL!

 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 1:52 pm

Penny, my dear - did you notice the subject of this thread? Yes? Fine.

PS Why is it your concern only if Egyptians kill or go against fellow Egyptians if it involves (Muslim) Egyptians? If (Coptic-Christian) Egyptians (like in the incident a few weeks ago near Minya where Pope Twadros himself had to interfere) go at each other you're not bothered. Or if (Coptic) Egyptians go against (Protestant) Egyptians you don't lose sleep over it either ...

Which just shows that you're not concerned about human beings but all you're concerned about is: "Can I (Penny) use it for propaganda purpose?". This is why you're considered just another troll ... and are as such not entertained any longer.
 

M B (62)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 2:10 pm
Thx Eleonora *****************
 

Evelyn B (63)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 2:44 pm
Oh, Eleonora
Don't catch the dread disease of trying to deviate attention by asking "why aren't you looking at " X, Y, Z, anywhere but at Israel's human rights abuses! ...Maybe I should send you some isabgol - to be taken with water to deconstipate the brain ? The problem does seem to be contageous, although usually manifests itself by answers taking discussion off in tangents desired by those who don't like the topic of the article .....

And matbe I'm catching it, too - becauseU can't help picking up a tangent: I have seldom seen the "critics" making constructive comments when I or others post articles that don't (directly) concern Israeli government policies, strategies, actions ..... Unless as an excuse to through some Islamophobic comment into the mix.
 

fly b (26)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 4:18 pm
it's all 'red herrings' -- the hasbara tactics used, over and over.

4Just 'distraction/evasion' purposes --

Sort of like tax evasion - obscure, lie, cheat, distort, and cover up - or throw in something to hope the diversion will keep focus off the fraud!!
 

Eleonora Oldani (37)
Sunday June 28, 2015, 4:35 pm

Evelyn and Jess - you're both so right and spot on. But there's nothing to worry that I might catch this disease - my PS comment to Penny was just to highlight what we already know since quite some time: human rights ... rather "human rights" of others ... are only of marginal concern to our hasbaratchik trolls if it can be used for propaganda purposes; either to derail the discussion or (as you said Evelyn) to throw in some Islamphobic comments. If neither is possible then it consequently and without exceptions flies under their radar.

Maybe they should get a new radar system?
 
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