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A Tragedy, a Horror, a Crime Against Humanity

World  (tags: world, news, women, Honor Killings, crime )

- 3083 days ago -
The details of the murders - of the women beheaded, burned to death, stoned to death, stabbed, electrocuted, strangled and buried alive for the "honour" of their families - are as barbaric as they are shameful.


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Michelle Matthews (287)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 7:22 pm
Women are still the largest and most violently oppressed group across the globe, transcending politics, religion and ethnicity. Tragic! We need us some modern day Amazons! I cross posted this on Twitter. Thank you Rose.

Alex Keir (0)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 7:22 pm
Shining the light on these barbaric practices is the only way to stop them.

Saturday September 11, 2010, 7:53 pm
Truly disgusted! >:(

Lynn Marie M (22)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 8:38 pm
this article will devastate you.

Marta Away (55)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 8:51 pm
Among women between 15 and 44, acts of violence cause more death and disability than cancer, malaria, traffic accidents and war combined.

It is perhaps the more pervasive Humans Right Violation that we know today.

Source: UNIFEM (the United Nations Development Fund for Women):

Noted. Thank you, Rose.

Natasha Gordon (71)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 8:56 pm

Michelle Matthews (287)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 9:23 pm
Rose, this is the most important post I have ever read on Care2. I just spent the last 2 hours doing a roll call on Twitter of each individual person (nameless or not) mentioned in that article who was brutally murdered in the name of honour. I am actually currently writing a book about this subject. It does not get the media attention that it should and I honour these women, Robert Frisk and you for putting it in front of our eyes and consciences. Thank you so much.

Michelle Matthews (287)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 9:45 pm
Rose, I just sent out a message to all my friends on Care2 with what I thought was the link to your post - it takes them all straight to the article. I'm too tired to re-send to 300 people, but I will do so tomorrow.

Sue L (71)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 10:46 pm
Thanks for sharing information about the horrible practice of "honour" killings Rose. The world needs to be made aware of how often these crimes take place so they can be stopped once and for all.

Rose Becke (141)
Saturday September 11, 2010, 11:11 pm
Thank you Michelle

linda b (186)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 1:53 am
God help all these poor women who are suffering at the hands of evil. Thank you Rose.

Margaret B (88)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 3:39 am
After reading this article, do you STILL want to be tolerant towards this religion????? This happens everyday to everyday people who are following the religious LAW..... in TODAY's society...... and its coming to America folks...

FlysAtNight Woman (10)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 3:54 am
I'm so outraged I don't even have any "words" for how I feel at this moment..............Okay--let's kill-off--by immediate Death Sentences--all those asinine men & boys who happily admitted to participating retroactively as-well-as currently in ALL these murders, by a United Nations International Court. Let us also, by the same International Court, give nice, lengthy prison sentences to ALL the asinine men who willingly participated in gang-raping & pouring acid on the other women in ALL of these retroactive & current cases!!

Furthermore--lets impeach AND imprison the idiot Russian President Ramzan Khadyrov for openly & happily exacerbating the situation in his own country, by encouraging this needless slaughter of women & girls in Russia! And do the exact same for all these moronic Judges & Officers in the Courts & Police Depts of these other countries for also encouraging this!

WTF is the matter with these damn men? I myself, am a Survivor of Domestic Sexual Assault several years ago, and I've had to deal with the stupidity AND criminal conduct of that guy's damn friends & family members as if I was the "bad guy" in all of this because I too, demanded JUSTICE for being needlessly abused! I ended up going into the POLICE ACADEMY and am a Criminal Justice major because of all the constant Stalking, Cyberstalking, Harrassment & Threats! God--the manure I've endured for being a victim! And now I have to learn about all this crap going on overseas to boot?! Again, I have to say, WTF is wrong with all these damn men & enabling women?
Continued below…


FlysAtNight Woman (10)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 3:55 am
Continued from above...
First & foremost, change the laws to make these crimes retroactively punishable By Death, and execute ALL these murderers. Just get rid of them, because you cannot change them! Next, change the other laws to demand castration and VERY long-term prison sentences of 25+years WITH NO DAMN PAROLE--for the others who willingly gang-raped, and poured acid on, the surviving victims of these violent atrocities.


That will greatly reduce--if not eliminate--this massive problem! There are ways of putting a stop to all this ancient, old-school BS against women, and this way would be a fantastic start in greatly reducing &/or permanently eliminating this pandemic of evil. But one thing that MUST happen--is that IT MUST STOP--and I mean STOP NOW!!!!

Michelle Matthews (287)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 5:55 am
Margaret B., did you read the article? It's nothing to do with Islam or one particular cultural group. It happens in musim, christian, hindu families. It happens in Europe, North America, Middle East. It is a crime against women!

Patricia Myers (73)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:16 am

Past Member (0)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:17 am
Merci... Thank you Michelle !

Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:24 am
Thank you so much for posting this Rose and to Michelle for bringing it to our attention.

Vivien Green (153)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:40 am
Rose I read this with with a mixture of emotions outraged, tearful. disgusted sadness, pity etc. All of these images are horrific and heartbreaking but the one that really haunts me the most is this:

The young woman found in a drainage ditch near Daharki in Pakistan, "honour" killed by her family as she gave birth to her second child, her nose, ears and lips chopped off before being axed to death, her first infant lying dead among her clothes, her newborn's torso still in her womb, its head already emerging from her body? She was badly decomposed; the local police were asked to bury her. Women carried the three to a grave, but a Muslim cleric refused to say prayers for her because it was "irreligious" to participate in the namaz-e-janaza prayers for "a cursed woman and her illegitimate children".

How can anyone reading this not be outraged shocked and sickened, this is a hellish story and needs to be shouted from the rooftops and throughout the world this is one of the most profane acts that a human being can carry out on another. If anything cries out for justice this does!!!!!!!

Bob Algeron (47)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:54 am
"In the Pakistani parliament, the MP Israrullah Zehri referred to the murders as part of a "centuries-old tradition" which he would "continue to defend". "

Michela M (3964)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:03 am
Terrible!!!!!!!!!!! Noted!! Thanks!! Ciao!! Michela

P A (117)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:18 am
Oh my word this is hard for anyone with an ounce of compassion to read - even worse if you've ever experienced anything like this yourself, and survived to fight injustice - as so many of us have.

Michelle M is right - this is societal, not religious, that is made quite clear - but alas the reason so many don't speak out in those societies may be that some agree, but that most fear the fate in one of the earlier paragraphs of the two women in their 30s and 40s who protested and were murdered and buried in the same ditch (I think my details are right, but it hurts too much to re-read it to ensure details exact).

There are many reasons we have democracy and free speech in its various guises in the West today - and one is that in the past some very rich and enlightened priviliged men who had most of the power argued and fought so that less priviliged men should have the vote, then they argued etc so all men could vote, then, (after too long for us, but surprisingly soon for the rest of the world) they argued that priviliged women, then all women too should have the vote. With this new attitude towards women old attitudes such as the one where a husband was allowed to beat his wife with a stick as much as he liked so long as the stick was no thicker than his thumb, and that a woman could be incarcerated in a mental hospital for life for refusing sex to her husband, or a woman could never be raped by her husband - declined. Slowly. Entrenched attitudes are hard to change.

In other words, though I desperately, desperately want to wave a magic wand and stop this hideous, vile, foul and disgusting behaviour, we can't just say 'they shouldn't do it' 'kill the murderers' - the change must come from within.

Past Member (0)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:34 am
Noted. There is no "honor" in this sort of horrific practice.

Lydia S (155)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:42 am
Thank you for raising awareness.

Terry King (113)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:43 am
Cruelty against women in the name of religion is a worldwide phenomenon! The irony is that without the support of women these religions wouldn't exist!

Magdalena M (0)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:52 am
I don't have words for it. They are savages. No religion can explain it to me, no law. If you are human, you think and feel....

Michelle Matthews (287)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:00 am
These are not religious killings! They are about supposed family "honour. They happen in almost all of the big religions and across many ethnic/cultural groups.

Bess moore (6)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:01 am
OMG!!!!! So sad!!!!!

Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:04 am
You cannot currently send a star to Michelle because you have done so within the last week.

Lars Pardo (68)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:09 am
how is this even defensible? it goes along w/the Thai minister who thinks it's our right to torture non-human animals. it goes along w/the michael vick's of the world who get enjoyment in dog fighting. it goes along w/all those who choose war & violence as a path forward.

there is a major flaw in the way humans think

Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:17 am
This is so pathetic in this day and age. Religion holds people back from evolving into a civilized race.

A C2 friend sent me this link today...and although it's a little off topic, it really isn't...,222/


Bruno Moreira (61)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:19 am
how can people even have the guts or thoughts of doing such inhumane activities, unbelievable and truely sad

Catherine Ignatowski (80)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:52 am
These people need to come out of the stone age. These people are sick,they dishonor their families by murdering their own. This has nothing to do wth religion, if it did, there would be alot of men walking around without their peckers. This is female domination.

JustaHuman Here (53)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:55 am
As all this shows the danger of this religion with its by menn dominated rules, we should never get motivated for a solution that could be posible by war. This religion as religion in general is keeping people in a primitive state of obeing and following instead of requesting and reasoning. The cruelty in their punishments shows a rather low spiritual development. Unfortunately I do not know any solution for this problem.

By the way, I hate those idiots who abuse Care2 for their greed. But Care2 does not mind. I already complained about this.

Vivien Green (153)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:55 am
Who every you are that keeps posting these adverts you are not doing you business any good. I for one would not trade with you and I think I reflect the same. sentiment of many others on Care2.
You have shown a callous disregard for this article and for many others stories that have been posted. If you want to advertise on Care2 pay for it and place it in an appropriate place not on news threads.

Vivien Green (153)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:57 am
Great I see Care2 have removed your post on here. TY Care2.

patricia lasek (317)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:58 am
It is horrendous that women continue to be victims of violence. Don't forget to click on care2 to stop violence against women. Sign all the petitions you can find. Thanks for the post Rose and Michelle, thanks for the forward. Promote this story to Page One!

Past Member (0)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 9:04 am
Noted and thank you Rose & Michelle .

Ron Avila (20)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 9:06 am
it's hard to comment on this. this is not cultural or a tradition, it is evil possession.

Mike M (40)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 9:14 am

Robert Shaffer (27)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 9:30 am
Noted, thanks.

Trish K (93)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 10:01 am
Ignorance and religion don't mix. War should be declared against ignorance and instead of bombs we should be bombing with books and leading everyone to knowledge. No Organized Religion. Religion Kills.

Fiona Ogilvie (562)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 10:03 am
Thank you, Rose for the posting. Thank you, Michelle for fixing the link. This is the most disturbing article I have ever read. I cannot imagine two relatives tying the hands of a young girl making her sit in a hole and burying her alive under a chicken coop. This is so serious. The attitude so disgusting. I think Europe and North America should curtail immigration from the regions where this cruelty is common practice.

Patricia C (96)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 10:07 am
It is a terrifying mindset to try and comprehend, that a father could think he is preserving "honour" by murdering his own daughter, and more terrifying still that the article states that these kind of murders are escalating. I don't know how we can change this warped way of thinking; I certainly wish I did. Thank you Rose and Michelle.

Mary P (157)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 10:28 am
OMG this is indeed the most horrendous acts of men I have cum across. What is wrong with some of the people of this world. 'Honour killings' are NOT of any religions. Religions are very clear on "THOU SHALL NOT KILL". Even the killing of a bird, for sport, is a SIN. Its NOT even tradition or culture. Has to be somethng lacking in their brains. They are sick perverted individuals,with no intelligence and devoid of all compassion for human beings. Even animals care for their own.

Ruth K (66)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 10:41 am
When I read about these crimes, the question I ask myself, is, “What can I do about it?” My first reaction is generally one that involves violence against the violators. But moving beyond the rage that makes me want to form an army of women to go in with machetes to perform mass castrations, I generally start thinking about root causes. These horrible crimes against women are not supported by Islam and they have been condemned by many Islamic leaders. Furthermore, many countries in which these "honor crimes" happen have laws against them, but those laws are largely ineffectual in the regions where there is economic hardship and lack of education. For example, Turkey's constitution establishes it as a secular state, and one where nobody is discriminated against based on “language, race, color, sex, political opinion, philosophical convictions or religious beliefs.” It used to be that punishments were reduced in Turkey for those who killed for “honor,” but Turkey has come a long way in changing its laws to bring full punishment in these cases.

But “honor killings” still happen in regions where tribal and feudal traditions are coupled with economic hardship and lack of education. So, in addition to bringing the rapists and murderers to justice under existing laws, improving education and economic well-being is essential in the regions where the brutality against women is the worst. Also, international exposure, such as that brought by this series of articles by Robert Fisk, via Rose and Michelle, as Alex Keir says, "shines a light" on this hidden holocaust.

(Much of this info was gleaned from Zulfu Livaneli's informative article, “Honor Killings and Violence Against Women in Turkey.” I recommend it. I am particularly interested in what's happening in Turkey, because my sister lives there. She is not in danger.)

Eileen Novak (444)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 10:53 am
*You cannot currently send a star to Michelle because you have done so within the last week.*
From Michelle:
"Margaret B., did you read the article? It's nothing to do with Islam or one particular cultural group. It happens in musim, christian, hindu families. It happens in Europe, North America, Middle East. It is a crime against women!
These are not religious killings! They are about supposed family "honour. They happen in almost all of the big religions and across many ethnic/cultural groups. "
Thank you Michelle! Thanks for doing research on this, and I can't wait to see your book. Good on ya'.
Thanks Rose also for posting.

Liliana D (125)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 11:17 am
Noted .... speachless ....

Philip H (474)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 11:30 am
Something is wrong if this kind of behavior is condoned.

Cindy C (125)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 11:32 am

Krasimira B (175)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 12:02 pm
Horror killings. There is no a statistic from Albania and Kosovo. Very important and informative article. Thank you, Rose.

Past Member (0)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 12:08 pm
These are crimes of "Non- Humanity".

But there is one thing that can not be excused here, although many here have tried to. This honour killings do have sanctions within certain religious laws. It is a fact that all of the "tolerance" should not attempt to "tolerate".

This is a case for intolerance. To continue to blame this behavior on poverty and the uneducated is once again a faulty attempt at excusing that which is intolerable. These horrors are not only perpetrated and condoned by the poor, they are taught and carried out by those that have the benefit of both means and education.

It is time to call out what is behind this and that is a religious directive of certain sects of the Muslim religion. That is a fact.

And we need to be aware and not allow these religious and cultural "laws" to gain a foothold in America.

Patrizia S (315)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 12:35 pm
very sad...thank you Michelle

Monique Pouchet (236)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 1:07 pm
I agree with all comments which indicates that it's not a religion point (R. Fisk loves arabic world and respects very much Islam) and the one which spoke about the "trib traditions". And "trib" in all means, not just ethnic tribs.
We coud say many things. I just add 2. Anyone in the world is responsible for any act of violence as any act of love.
Then, in front of traditions so far of the way we think, it could not be changed by violent ways, which means that we should have, no to accept, of course, but consider the other one who acts this way as a person I may dialogue with. I mean. if I should like change something.
Michelle, I don't know if the women are the more oppressed group, may be. It seems to me that the weeker group is always the more oppressed.

Linda G (187)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 1:13 pm
This is not about Islam... They are not our enemy!! This occurs in all religions in all areas of the world. I wish people who want to blame everything on Islam would just read the facts.
Anyone who abuses another, whether man, woman, child, or animal, diminishes all of humanity. We must unite our voices and work to stop these horrific abuses.

Mary P (157)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 1:54 pm
Please, people do NOT blame Religions, for the inhumane and barbaric acts of humans. It happens amongst non religious groups too. The crazy individual is to blame.

Mary Hall (74)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 2:01 pm
These 'honor' murders are a disgrace to humanity. We all must unite and use our LOUD collective voice to put an end to such barbaric practices!

Blacktiger P (247)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 2:04 pm
How many people here on care2 have been turned out of your home as a pregnant teen?? Now how many have been told that the child must be put out for adoption?? Here in North America[Canada] included, teens are only now being allowed by family members to keep their kids. The very fact that a human mother must give up a child she has gestated for 9 months, felt moving inside her is in my opinion barbaric. So how many here will "fess" up to the softer side of the same thing that happens in other cultures??? I was mother at 17 and had to surrender my baby!!! Now here's the rib, my baby was adopted by a couple of which the woman was also an adopted child. I took solace in the fact she was going to a loving home,but as I found out later she fell into the same "dishonorable" trap as I had. In fact she was told she was "no better" than her SLUTTY BIRTHMOTHER.
So back to subject on how to end these atrocities in the 3rd world countries. Education::FOR THE MEN AND BOYS!!!!! That is the only way. That will put an end to all the bad things that are visited upon women and girls. Acid, stoning,lynching,burning,raping. Teach the men that these will only dishonor themselves. We have three generations to educate, the grandparents, the parents and the boys,

BUT how to do this, as the western world, with our more lenient rules show the eastern peoples that we are "very sinful" and not to be teachers to them. Do as we say not as we do!!!

Pete Conrads (91)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 2:09 pm
Sharia law is a package deal with the unevolved not so funny Flinston's. Lashing a woman 90 times to get admissions of guilt?

or stonings, by even by their sons. Stonings?!?!?!?!? They decapitate those who do not except Sharia Law. What IS SHaria Law? ISLAM. I once believed in religious freedoms for all. Islam by its very nature cn not condone nor abide by infidels ( Non Islamic) Depending how Islamic your country is, determines the nature of expected brutalities. All non Islamic folk need to think real hard about their beliefs. Islam has gained a dangerousfoothold in France, EU and the UK, over the last decades many Islamic people hive sired American sons, sons who can be backed by oil money to take towns, Cities, Congree, Senate, the Presidency. Islam believes that Islam will have access to the WHite House in 9 years. Only Islam will be accepted, do you see where I am going with this? This is not scaremongering, research the youth in prisons across America where Islam IS the strongest religion. As these criminals are released, they have a "family" waiting for them. there are many training camps already here in the US that train hatred for the Infidal. Linda, I also agree with you regarding treatment, Sarah Palin made women pay for their own rape kits. But sadly though I used to believe like you, research proved horribly otherwise. This is not religious tolerance, it is humankind perpetrating crimes against humanity and treated as such.

This has been a hard inner battle for me. I though that religious freedom and diversity made America more evolved, I was right and wrong. Muslim = Islam = Sharia Law = Islam = SHARIA LAW. This is an absolute, any Mullah can tell you that. I am involved with petitioning and working with Amnesty International and Averaz and Get UP! as are most of you. Humankind has got to come to a quarter, an evolutionary Louieville slugger ought to do it. I will not allow humans to harm each other when I can. I have interceded on behalf on abused woman only to have the women tell me what grief I brought her>>>>> There are young girls living in the suburbs as slaves to many wealthy Islamists and other sickos. In fact, the slave trade is UP in the USA.

Bracha Katz (31)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 2:21 pm
The title just says it all. Oh my God, this is horrible, now excuse me while I faint. Thanks Rose

Margaret B (88)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 2:51 pm
Michelle M.... yes I did read the article and did you NOT notice that some of the most disturbing examples in the article were in the Middle East. Yes, this happens in other countries in different ways. But what is overlooked here is that although this article is not about religion, you cannot separate the REASON they were killed from the crime. They are victims of the RELIGIOUS LAW. The local religious leader makes the decisions. Have you not seen ANY of the films out there based on real stories that were filmed in the middle east showing how that works so you can understand. Are you not following the story of the woman currently held in Iran? Do I really need to give any more examples?

Past Member (0)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 2:52 pm
This is an act of honor?
It's hard to understand, even though it is a tradition passed on down through the ages, a brain washing as it were , how fathers and brothers can kill these beautiful, viberent young women, is there no still silent voice, no gut feeling, no love, that tells them, NO!

Judith C (159)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 3:19 pm

Susan S (187)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 4:34 pm
Noted with gratitude Rose and Michelle. We have to keep vigilant against violence.

Kaye S (45)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 5:23 pm

Mari 's (1356)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 5:35 pm


Past Member (0)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 5:46 pm
Honour Killings are ABHORRENT! and it is concerning how prevalent they are occurring not only in muslim states BUT in WESTERN countries. Because the ABSOLUTE BELIEF of entitlement to practice sharia law with muslim communities, honour killings are difficult to police as the entire community closes rank against outside investigation. This HAS TO STOP! In the words of Gert Wilder, the ENTIRE West HAS to send a CLEAR, CONCISE, UNITED voice of condemnation and intolerance towards 'honour' killings.

pam w (139)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:01 pm
Please understand that these "honour" killings might be happening in Western countries but you need to know WHO is guilty! These attitudes are often brought with immigrants to "new" countries. They come from the cradle of Islam. I know....I know....I'm not "politically correct."

"Iraqi Kurds, Palestinians in Jordan, Pakistan and Turkey appear to be the worst offenders but media freedoms in these countries may over-compensate for the secrecy which surrounds "honour" killings in Egypt – which untruthfully claims there are none – and other Middle East nations in the Gulf and the Levant. But honour crimes long ago spread to Britain, Belgium, Russia and Canada and many other nations. Security authorities and courts across much of the Middle East have connived in reducing or abrogating prison sentences for the family murder of women, often classifying them as suicides to prevent prosecutions.

Cheryl B (64)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:20 pm
Thanks for telling the world

Andrea rogers (71)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:28 pm
how you treat animals says alot about yourself whether it is a nation or personal. What is called a cultural tradition is nothing more than an excuse to say BECAUSE I CAN

Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:31 pm
Michelle, I couldn't possibly read this article. My heart began to break even before I read the fist sentence! I , personally,had to endure twelve years of abuse by an alcoholic husband, in Australia, where I could get no police protection, even 'though my childrens' and my life was in danger and I was reaching out for help, black and blue and with broken ribs! I know that the law has now changed, but even in 'civilized Christian' countries, abuse is going on every day for thousands of women. THAT is why my heart goes out to all those all over the world who are victims of terrible abuse. I will do ANYTHING I can to help rid the world of this terrible crimes against women.I try so hard to rationalize that the people that are doing these terrible things are doing it because they are mentally sick, or they have been indoctrinated by their societies that it is fine to do these terrible things, but it is hard not to feel the anger welling up inside myself! I keep on reminding myself that it is no use going through a dreadful experience, if you don't turn it to the good and try to use that anger as a motivation towards trying to make changes for other people. I know that there may be women reading this who have been abused and I send them all my love and prayers and just hope that they too can turn the pain from those dreadful experiences into positive action!

Past Member (0)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:35 pm
@Pam W Thank-you, thank-you, THANK-YOU! For having the fortitude to tell it how it REALLY is! Having been 'verbally bashed up' on here (not this thread), for trying to point out REAL muslim sentiment towards the West, I kept that part to my self and only hinted at it here. THANK-YOU for having the courage to be so honest, RESPECT!

Michelle Matthews (287)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:41 pm
Margaret B. I think you read the article with an expectation of it being particular to Islam. Many, many honour killings happen in India, in Hindu families, due to the still prevalent caste system. You just cannot put it into a neat, tidy bundle of islamic culture and therefore make it easier to dismiss. It is a crime against women. It transcends every culture, every religion every geographic region. It would be grossly tragic, especially for the victims, to simply dismiss it as a result of Islam. We do an enormous disservice to the victims and to ourselves in doing that.

Michelle Matthews (287)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 6:48 pm
Pam W. and Tracie C. you both need to read this article a little more closely. It clearly illuminates the honour killings that occur in christian and hindu families as well as muslim ones. It is grossly erroneous to classify it as a "muslim" thing. This seems to be the knee-jerk reaction. It enables us to dismiss it, to put it out of our consciences because, really,in this fashion, it touches on us only tangentially. These are women, human beings. Who cares what religion they are in any case? What gnat's worth of breath would it make were they all muslim? What is your objective in trying to classify them this way? We don't have to care about these atrocities because they are committed by people of a religion that it is currently a la mode to disdain? Gah! Remember your humanity! At the end of the day we are all human beings and if we can't care for each other regardless of creed, ethnicity, religion or culture then who will?

Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:02 pm

You tried. I knew that this would turn into an Islamic issue, ignoring what the article does address which is crimes against women which you so eloquently stated "transcends every culture, every religion every geographic region". We, as North Americans, seem to believe we are so above what goes on in other parts of the world.. At the end of the day, violent crimes against women is practiced on a daily basis in North America and every other country in the world. It has no boundaries.

Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:08 pm
Cheryl B. Nice to see you back again!

Michelle Matthews (287)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:09 pm
It's comforting for many to pretend that this is a crime foreign to us because it occurs in "muslim" families in far away countries. This is the biggest fallacy and injustice of all.

These women ... all women abused, killed and/or mistreated, need to be named. We need to acknowledge their lives and their value. We need to restore their identities and honour. They need us to stand solidly behind them to give them the support and comity they need to stand up to these heinous indignities.

Rose Becke (141)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:32 pm
So True Michelle

Thank you all for your comments


Ruth K (66)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 7:59 pm
Syeda Saiyidain Hameed is a highly educated and informed Muslim lady from India. She wrote an opinion article "Adultery and the Quran" in the online journal Boloji. I am not an expert on Islamic law, but for those who claim to be so certain that Islam, in particular, is responsible for these behaviors, I would refer you to Mrs. Hameed's article. Anyone from any religion can claim to know the correct interpretation of their holy book. Many people twist religious scripture to justify the cruelty that they have been taught. Blaming all Muslim people for the acts of ignorant, backward and feudal people is like blaming the entire Western world for the evils of the Crusades, or witch burning, or the Nazis.

I stand by my statement, "improving education and economic well-being is essential" to change this intolerably cruel situation.

Terry B (649)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:38 pm
Thank you, Peter for countering some of the ridiculous greenwashing of the mohammedean superstition.

Not denying that other superstitions have had equally horrible histories, from the Mayan drownings and Aztec heart surgery to the Inquisition and Crusades, the others have moved beyond the thirteenth century.

While there are bad people across the board, independent of their particular superstition, there is only once society that officially condones such horror through their "scripture", "clergy", governments, and courts.

Only one superstition has ever held that all non-believers on the face of the planet must be killed.

By their own definitions, "moderate" mohammedeans are bad mohammedeans.

But John Lennon, seconded by Joan Baez, had it right. God, a pox upon all of your houses.

Sunday September 12, 2010, 8:46 pm
Tracie C:

The only ranting I see, is your post with your over capitalization (do you think we can hear you scream louder?). Name calling, always a nice touch.

Cindy B (61)
Sunday September 12, 2010, 9:17 pm
I believe the Islamic religion is a correlation but not a causation of such horrible, horrible crimes. YES, IT IS TRUE that these crimes do occur in Muslim countries more than any other. But I believe they speak much more to the damage created by the intense restriction and convolution of normal male-female social relations than anything decreed specifically in the religion. I believe "Sharia Law" is something practiced mainly by the ultra-orthodox nuts. We have home-grown terrorists over here that "worship the Lord" yet are horrible skinhead racists who happily blow people up. Do they represent all Americans??! I'm an extremely analytical person who needs to have a decent idea of the various factors involved, their intensity, frequency and dynamic interplay before identifying THE CAUSE of something. I know that violence against women is certainly not limited to "horror killings" (no, not "honour") in the Mideast. We have plenty of stalkings, rapes and murders of wives, girlfriends, ex-girlfriends, random women and young girls in western countries too. And it's getting to be a weekly occurrence even here in Seattle, WA, that some guy kills his wife and kids, then turns the gun on himself... I think these loathsome, sickening crimes are more about men's psychiatric aberrancy than religion. But like I said, I will refrain from further comment until I learn more. However I do dread "learning more" because this topic makes me feel crazy with nausea and black despair. Still, we must press on... OH YEAH, ONE OTHER THING, MR/MS TRACIE C: MICHELLE M. & MARGARET M. ARE BOTH FRIENDS OF MINE AND I HAPPEN TO KNOW THEY ARE THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF "DIM WITTED BIGOTS." Tells me a lot about YOU, though...

Past Member (0)
Monday September 13, 2010, 1:23 am
"The details of the murders - of the women beheaded, burned to death, stoned to death, stabbed, electrocuted, strangled and buried alive for the "honour" of their families - are as barbaric as they are shameful."
Those people who commit those things are less than dozens of persons who are ignorant and illiterate, and do not understand the real spirit of Islam, that thing is not in the name of Islam. it's in the name of those persons only and Islam is against them.

You may say, ok... but whats about the Iranian woman who faced the stoning punishment in Iran.
I say, the regime in Iran are like those persons, uses the name of Islam to achieve it's personal interests.

Thanks for the post rose.


Chien Chao (105)
Monday September 13, 2010, 1:41 am

Mary P (157)
Monday September 13, 2010, 2:15 am
Its amazing how easy it is to detect those who comment, only with the the aim and intention of demonising Islam. They themselves feel no compassion for the victims of abuse, discussed on this link; but only wish to spew out their own personal hatred, insecurities and fear of Islam which they honestly know nothing about. Their statements reflect their personal IGNORANCE of Islam and stinks of the Islam hate-sites, that they are fans of.

gail dair (0)
Monday September 13, 2010, 3:14 am
noted ty

Past Member (0)
Monday September 13, 2010, 3:27 am
Thank you, Rose. Robert Fisk is, in my view, the finest journalist in Britain. Here's a link to his original story, in The Independent.

Past Member (0)
Monday September 13, 2010, 3:30 am
Incidentally, that link is to a series of articles - is more reflective and analytic, where he discusses the whole problem in more detail. It's really worth reading, and it's by no means anti-Islamic.
That's one thing nobody could ever excuse Robert Fisk of being, I have huge respect for the man and his writing.

Monday September 13, 2010, 3:46 am
Well said, Mary P.

Teresa W (782)
Monday September 13, 2010, 4:35 am

Michelle Matthews (287)
Monday September 13, 2010, 5:27 am
Tracie C. Please tell me what Margaret M or I said that was bigoted or dim-witted. Or is it just that we disagree with you? Is it simpler to just dismiss us as bigoted because we struck a chord or showed you a fact that made you uncomfortable?

Michelle Matthews (287)
Monday September 13, 2010, 5:36 am
Margaret B. many of these atrocities were committed by family members. The decisions were made by them not religious leaders. You are mistaken in that. In other cases, but most definitely not the majority, they were made by village elders who are not religious leaders. There was a case in Toronto earlier this year of a Hindu man murdering his daughter-in-law because she wanted to leave her husband. Nothing to do with islam. Once he was arrested he claimed to have restored the family's honour. Nothing to do with religious leaders. And yes, I have researched this subject extensively. It is not dissimilar to the systemic rape of women as a tool of war in Africa right now.

Michelle Matthews (287)
Monday September 13, 2010, 5:38 am
But again I ask, what difference does it make if they were 100% muslim? Would we be able to ignore them more readily were that the case? I don't even understand this facet of the argument. Why are we discussing it? These women were brutally killed. Women ... human beings...end of story.

Kenneth L (314)
Monday September 13, 2010, 5:40 am
Totally barbaric acts committed by degraded humans. You see evil. And it doesn't matter what the 'reason' is by which someone seeks to 'justify' such acts. Give a degraded human being any 'reason' and he'll use it to commit degraded acts.

Kerrie G (116)
Monday September 13, 2010, 7:17 am
Noted, thanks.

Past Member (0)
Monday September 13, 2010, 8:11 am
Absolutely horrible and inhumane. I sent meditations for them all. What is wrong with these people? Again one of the many reasons I don't like conformed religions. Seems many religions are really not based on compassion, and people follow what ever they are told by the leaders without question. Many of these same religions are dominated by a male hierarchy, which makes rules in which women are controlled with fear and physical or mental harm.

Ruth K (66)
Monday September 13, 2010, 8:20 am
We are all horrified by these acts. There is a certain psychology that wants to place it far from us, as if we are not capable of anything like that.

Those who blame Islam as a whole for these actions of some barbaric and degraded humans would do well to look at the acts performed by barbaric and degraded US Army members and American citizens at Abu Graib. They laughed as they tortured and killed. It is just as unfair for us to judge the entire Muslim world as it is unfair for us to be judged for the actions of the torturers and killers at Abu Graib. Hatred and fear in humans are the cause of cruelty.

Now are we going to waste time on the false moral high ground, blaming many Muslims who are just as horrified as we, or are we going to move on and try to figure out what we can do about it. The little Christian, Hindu, and Muslim boys and girls who are witnessing these horrors are going to grow into men and women who end up perpetrating these crimes. Please, we all have compassion. Let's use it constructively, and not attack each other.

Rose and Michelle brought this story to us. I thank them both. And, just as Michelle said, this is not a story about Muslims. This is a story that drives home cruelty that is perpetrated by human beings. It affects all of us. And we are all responsible. Now, what are we going to do about it? Our hands are tied, as long as we keep blaming somebody else for these heinous acts.

Part of the reason we are so horrified is that it is our fellow humans who are doing this. We need to look in the mirror, and see the hatred and fear on our own faces.

Maria p (151)
Monday September 13, 2010, 8:24 am

Katie S (79)
Monday September 13, 2010, 8:35 am
There is no 'honour' in murdering a member of your own family for such 'crimes'.

Mary P (157)
Monday September 13, 2010, 8:40 am
Margaret Mayer , Thank you.

Ruth K - You cannot currently send a star to Ruth because you have done so within the last week.

Sherylee Harper (21)
Monday September 13, 2010, 10:00 am
It is still more important than ever that we hold our governments responsible for giving loans, supplying money, weapons and technical assistance to these nations that allow 'honour' killings. We must put our elected officials feet to the fire!

Monday September 13, 2010, 10:19 am
It seems to me that these perpetrators diminish the honor they are trying to defend by murdering people ...such an oxymoron!

Margaret B (88)
Monday September 13, 2010, 11:15 am
Trust me I would be just as horrified if it was a story about satanists cutting up little children....That also is a crime hidden in the guise of a "religion"

Monique Pouchet (236)
Monday September 13, 2010, 11:42 am

Thanks for the link. I saved it and I'll read later. It's always good to know the context of a writing and I admire R. Fisk too.

Elias Ayad (49)
Monday September 13, 2010, 12:37 pm
Awful !
But I don not agree with connecting this to Islam, I know Islam and many Muslims are civilized and do not agree with that.
connecting the crimes which done by some persons to their religion is wrong, I recently noted this news,
"Lesbian Couple's Home Burned Down in Possible Hate Crime" by Steve, could we say that the Christianity agree with that ?!
another example the Rabbi Ovadia Yosef "It is forbidden to be merciful to them," he talked about the Palestinians "You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable."
could we say that the Judaism is a religion that urges for killing the non-Jewish peoples?!

another one, Israeli Pfc. Aluf Benn who spent his years in the army in the Military Police in Lebanon. said when he talked about his military routines there "In the basement for Shin Bet interrogations at Nabatieh, in an old tobacco factory that had been transformed into the regional division headquarters, I saw prisoners eating like dogs, bent over with their hands tied behind their backs. And I smelled their sweat and urine. I never saw "irregularities.""

Another one, Sex scandals in the Churches.

and the list is too long... but what I wanna say is, it's wrong to connect the crimes that committed by some persons to their religion.


Elias Ayad (49)
Monday September 13, 2010, 12:38 pm
Uh Oh, thanks for sharing :)
ans will said Ruth.


Ruth K (66)
Monday September 13, 2010, 12:53 pm
In case anyone missed it, Marilyn D. posted this yesterday:

"A C2 friend sent me this link today...and although it's a little off topic, it really isn't...,222/ "

It's worth a look.

Heidi L (88)
Monday September 13, 2010, 1:16 pm
Words cannot express how disgusted I am with this!

Good Bye (43)
Monday September 13, 2010, 2:13 pm
Some cultures deserve to die. This is one such. Something must be done, globally, to stop violence against women. It is worth noting that most Muslims abhor this sort of thing. Every religion has morally corrupt idiots. Islam is no exception. In the USA we occasionally see a Christian murder and abortionist, "For Jesus," As if God can't handle things Herself.

Agnes W (141)
Monday September 13, 2010, 2:29 pm
it was difficult to read this article, but everyone should know what is happening there...

Karina Sm (2)
Monday September 13, 2010, 4:07 pm
I wish they'd stop doing this

Tom W (24)
Monday September 13, 2010, 8:10 pm
Like Italy and Australia we must follow and decide what constitutes a religion against the following of an evil cult.
True Muslims MUST obey the law of Muhammad which is called Shara Law.
If they disobey they themselves could be subject to the same penalties of stoning and even death.
There is no such thing as a good Muslim - They cannot be trusted and will follow the Koran before any moralities which states they can lie in the name of Allah.

This foreign insurgency must be seriously debated and all must be serious of the consecrations and stop quivering in fear of reprisals before we are taken over by this foreign cult.

Rose Becke (141)
Monday September 13, 2010, 10:03 pm
Thanks Zen for those links

Mary P (157)
Tuesday September 14, 2010, 3:36 am
Tom W , I very politely and respectfully ask you to crawl back to your dark hole. The light of the sun is perhaps too strong for you, making you delusional. Thank you.

Mary P (157)
Tuesday September 14, 2010, 3:38 am
Sorry, TOM forgot to add Lotz of LUV and GOD Bless. From your good 'MUSLIM' Sister, as in the Sight of GOD Almighty we all are brothers and sisters.

Tuesday September 14, 2010, 4:54 am
Shocking....Thanks Michelle and Rose.

Anna S (493)
Tuesday September 14, 2010, 4:57 am
That is so awful....noted !!

Sanja T (154)
Tuesday September 14, 2010, 9:21 am

Ruth K (66)
Tuesday September 14, 2010, 10:32 am
Tom W.,
I believe that you have been seriously misled. Saying, "There is no such thing as a good [insert villain of choice]" is what gives people the sense that somehow they are better than their villain of choice and it gives them license to do what harm they may. It is a bit like the brutal murderers of women justifying their actions, because of their view that the women are "evil." I can see that you are a person who cares about the earth and it's inhabitants, but I urge you to "judge not lest ye be judged." There are many Muslim people on this site who are some of the kindest people on earth. You need to revise your view, before you become the very thing you hate.

Mary P (157)
Tuesday September 14, 2010, 11:38 am
Ruth K -"There are many Muslim people on this site who are some of the kindest people on earth. You need to revise your view, before you become the very thing you hate"


You cannot currently send a star to Ruth because you have done so within the last week

Rose Becke (141)
Tuesday September 14, 2010, 4:25 pm
I agree with Mary P

It is about the Women to me not Muslims

Marta Away (55)
Tuesday September 14, 2010, 6:02 pm
Tom W: you must be joking! Otherwise, your ignorance is really appaling.

Terry B (649)
Wednesday September 15, 2010, 6:40 pm
Tom does not need to crawl into any dark hole of superstition. He's seen the light.

Laurie IS AWAY S (128)
Friday September 17, 2010, 2:01 pm
truly sad. Thanks for passing this on to me Michelle
Thank you for posting, Rose!

Joyce N (13)
Friday September 17, 2010, 4:12 pm
Thanks for sharing this story with the world. There is no honor in murder. Period. No excuses. None........

Judith Corrigan (101)
Friday September 17, 2010, 4:28 pm
There is no honor in murder.Some men have warped their religions beyond recognition and a way to control their women, which is not what any religion is about!

Rose Becke (141)
Friday September 17, 2010, 4:30 pm
I agree Judith C and Joyce N

Friday September 17, 2010, 5:38 pm
To state "there is no such thing as a good Muslim - They cannot be trusted and will follow the Koran before any moralities which states they can lie in the name of Allah" is not only born of ignorance, but also reeks of racism, intolerance and bigotry.

Charmaine C (177)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 11:27 am
Truely dark ages! If your heart does not grow cold in your breast when you read such things, then you have no heart! I honour each and every person who has ever died at the hands of the ignorant. I don't know their names but I do know they existed somewhere and that they were betrayed by someone who should have loved and protected them.

Joel Scott S (17)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 8:13 pm
Honor killings is nothing but bullshit. It give those in dominance roles and in power to abuse those victims by using "honor" as an excuse.

Rose Becke (141)
Saturday September 18, 2010, 9:17 pm
I like your comment Joel

Maria E (5)
Sunday September 19, 2010, 6:15 pm
I wonder what is the common denominator of these tormenting murderers and their enablers?
Religion and culture.
Who rears & enables these murderers? Women, Wife's, Mothers, Sisters, Aunts...

It's time we all stop enabling Men and Boys, it's time to show them It's NOT alright to treat women & girls as if they are possessions & less then Human.

We can not control the laws in every nation, Women and any Men that may care to, can at least start.. This is not new, it has been exposed several times, these killings have run for centuries.
Be it Man, Woman, Sister, Mother and Nations, the enablers should be ashamed & held accountable.

Women and children are always in peril, not only in these "Dis honour" killings but
at all times.
Even the words used to describe killers and their reasoning, "murder of passion", "Honour killings", speaks volumes!

We ought to have 0 tolerance for any and all murderers.


Jillian E (25)
Thursday September 23, 2010, 10:03 am
Noted. This knocked the wind out of me. There is know honour in what they're doing.

Rose Becke (141)
Thursday September 23, 2010, 4:13 pm
I so agree jillian
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