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2012 Mayan Prophecy End of An Age Part 1

Society & Culture  (tags: 2012, 21, December, 122112, Pole, Shift, end, world, Nostradamus, Edgar, Cayce, John, Van, Auken, mayan, calendar, prophecy, aztec, maya )

- 3942 days ago -
The year 2012 is only of interest to those who believe in the wisdom of ancient cultures.When asked what the New Age means to humanity, Edgar Cayce replied: "the full consciousness of the ability to communicate with Creative Forces in material environ.


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Gregory S (257)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 10:20 am
2012 is the beginning of a new spiritual awakening. There may be chaos. However, good will prevail over evil. Please take a few minutes to watch Part 2 of this short but informative interpretation by Mr. Van Auken. God's plan is a beautiful and wonderful one.

serge vrabec (278)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 11:59 am
Good times are here, thx Gregory. The Light is so POWERFUL and cleansing, Can you feel it?

Scott Shaubel (816)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 12:59 pm

The year 2012, is really,.. 2008, :o)

Marie T (227)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 1:50 pm

12 / 21/ 2012 look, all 1 and 2s ???????



Deborah Hooper (59)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 1:56 pm
Great stuff! Light overcoming darkness is all around, you can see it every day.

Has all of this been adjusted to today's calendar? We use the Georgian an offshoot of the Julian which came from the Roman and on and on. Wouldn't it be more correct to have months of 28 days with no blue moon (a second full moon in any month) and a 13 month year?

Time keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping, into the future.
I want to fly like an eagle
to the sea
fly like an eagle
let my spirit carry me
I want to fly like an eagle
till I'm free

Everybody sing . . .

Past Member (0)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 2:00 pm
ty gregory very good

Marie T (227)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 2:08 pm
Think on This ...
Then all of these influences astrological (as known or called) from without, bear witness--or are as innate influences upon our activity, our sojourn through any given experience. Not because we were born with the sun in this sign or that, nor because Jupiter or Mercury or Saturn or Uranus or Mars was rising or setting, but rather:
Because we were made for the purpose of being companions with Him, a little lower than the angels who behold His face ever yet as heirs, as joint heirs with Him who is the Savior, the Way, then we have brought these about because of our activities through our experiences in those realms! Hence they bear witness by being in certain positions--because of our activity, our sojourn in those environs, in relationships to the universal forces of activity.
Hence they bear witness of certain urges in us, not beyond our will but controlled by our will!

Edgar Cayce Reading 1567-2

Marie T (227)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 2:09 pm

I honor the God and the Goddess,
The eternal parents of the universe.

The Lover, out of boundless love,
takes the form of the Beloved.
What Beauty!
Both are made of the same nectar
and share the same food.

-Jnaneshwar (also known as Jnanadeva)

. (0)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 2:35 pm
I would distrust anything coming out of the Edgar Cayce Institute just on principle. Edgar Cayce was a charlatan.

I am quite confident that there will be no "end" of ANYTHING in 2012 based upon any such "prophecies." False prophets have been predicting the "end of the world" or the "end of an era" for as long as people have had religion.

Not surprisingly, the world (or the era, or whatever) never seems to end when they say it will.

Remember all of the hoopla about what would "happen" at the end of the last millennium? The Rapture.....the end of the world....well, I was there. And nothing happened.

Scott Shaubel (816)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 3:02 pm

think about this,. we are evolving right now,

- you people choose to pretend its not happening, lots of really smart people from all over the world, are trying to figure out what is next..

this crappy video I made has only been up for 1 week,..

Honors for this video (5)
#11 - Most Responded (This Week) - Science & Technology - Canada
#9 - Most Responded (This Month) - Science & Technology - Canada

#41 - Most Responded (All Time) - Science & Technology - Canada

#99 - Most Viewed (This Month) - Science & Technology - Canada
#67 - Top Favorited (This Month) - Science & Technology - Canada

this video is better with my annotations, view here, for descriptions

Photons(sunlight) for Food, Evolve,New Receptors,Hair Folicles,Photos,video with captions explining,and pointing out what you are looking at. Photons entering skin through nano tubes, from hair folicles, you can see the photons moving through the tubes. Natural Evolution.

. (0)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 7:33 pm


Gregory S (257)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 8:18 pm
This is in response to a personal letter I received about the pitfalls of religion and how this makes people believe there must be NO divine purpose. But there is.

Your words are more rational than you might think. GOD is in every part of your being. You have free will because of the complex nature of your physical and spiritual make-up.

You can chose to do something you know is wrong or do the right thing and feel good about yourself. GOD begins and ends with you.

However, from the bigger picture, we are all connected to a collective consciousness. There is a time in the future when we will become completely aware of the now and telepathic.

When this occurs no one will be able to lie because we will all be able to read each others minds. This is not fiction. It is a reality. The result of this evolutionary step is 'No More Wars' and everyone will understand their direct connection to creation, the creator, and your higher self.

There have been a lot of bad things done in he name of religion and God. Just as you would strive to be the best in your professional and personal life; so too you should try to be the most loving person you can be.

AS A SIDE NOTE: My son, when just a boy of six or seven had a Near Death Experience and gave me the information over a three day period. Information he could not possible have known on his own about a reality one might call Heaven.

I have been interested in being a better person throughout my life. I have fallen short of that goal many times. However, I choose to love others even though they make me angry or miserable. That is the state of being trapped in this physical body where we all think we are separate.

When we pass from this life our real self survives in the ether or spirit. No more physical or mental limits. No more disconnect from our divine everlasting self.

I believe you are doing the same as me or you would not have written. No church is required. You know there is good and evil in the world. You do not need some quack telling you that. YOU are the temple of God. No one else but you can take responsibility for your actions. You know this.

This self realization is the first step to finding happiness in your life, where frustration and anger may previously have resided. It doesn't matter if you believe for it to be real.

Accept yourself as special, unique, and with a right to be who you are with only one condition. Try to think more each day about how much better you are in your words and deeds today than you were a week, month or year ago.

Thank you for writing me about your thoughts.


Marian E (152)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 9:02 pm

I have nothing o add here except "well done Gregory".
Both for your comment above and finding these videos.

(Why the yawn? One doesn't have to believe in anything to
appreciate the explanation of a prophecy.)


. (0)
Saturday September 27, 2008, 9:34 pm
Unfortunately, Marian, if the prophecy is untrue to begin with then no explanation can illuminate it.

And my "yawn" was directed entirely towards Scott's remarks. Even when I strongly disagree with someone's basic premise, I can enjoy a good debate with that person if he presents his ideas logically and well. Scott does neither. Gregory at least is a more entertaining writer, although I certainly do not agree with his remarks.

And my remark really should have been a SHIVER instead of a yawn. Because people like Scott frighten me. Genuinely frighten me. Just as people like Charles Manson fighten me. Anyone who has such a monomania on subjects like Queen Elizabeth being part of a reptilian plot (I kid you not - check out the MANY shares and news items he has published on that subject and you'll see what I mean) and write such strange and rambling posts about living on photons and other unintelligible things simply are never to be trusted. On any subject. At any time. Under any circumstances whatsoever. And ultimately they are also deeply boring.

Gregory S (257)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 1:12 am

I am intrigued by why you deny anything that science or common sense has not proven. That would mean before 1930+ you would not believe in penicillin. It was invented by Fleming in 1928 and its use may have saved the lives of 1/2 of all wounded Americans in WWII. It was used in a practical way by 1940. Now that is practical, down to earth reality.

However, some naturopathic practitioners knew it occurred in the natural world long before that.

Some may get extreme on unprovable issues. But, Penicillin's efficacy was unproven before 1928.

How do we tell time? Nature inspired inventors of ancient time pieces. The Earth's seasons, the cycles of the moon, sun flares, positions of the stars and planets, even cycles of catastrophe caused man to try to understand and control his environment.

Today's global exploitation is an example of a sign of the times. We are also getting ever more informed and knowledgeable. These are exciting times to live in.

No one knows when anything is going to happen. We can only speculate based on what information at hand.

Part of the reason that reality changes moment by moment. Some of this is a result of our conscious actions and decisions. I tend to believe this is partly true.

Interestingly, current science is going through a complete renovation and finding itself embracing - that a consciousness may exist in all matter.

I post issues and prefer not to interject, since a point occurs where it becomes like Politics and Religion. It tends to get people angry real quick.

People do not want to step outside of their comfort zone. I have mine as you have yours. That does not make us different as fundamental human beings, only opinionated.

I think you cut yourself short when you get angry especially in the comment section of a news article. You are articulate and have a creative mind.

Tell your side of the story. I hope you are interested in doing that. It might surprise you how others will listen when you communicate in an educated, informed way.

I think most of this is about measurement of the 'bullshit level.' Now that is not science but we all know when we have reached that 'bullshit zone.' We say it first silently, "This is Bullshit!" Then if provoked we get vocal.

Freedom to speak and feel a specific way helps us to evolve as a species. We find out what works and what does not. One thing you may understand is we are in this together whether single minded or otherwise.

I like your conviction and tenacity even if it is rough around the edges.

Take care.


Janet Wintle (87)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 3:06 am
There is nothing hoary with age, that is handed down to the children of the Earth, for when written in books a flood comes, and all is washed away by the waters that are on this Earth. The survivors are, then groveling, in the mud, looking for remnants and little things to use. They are visited each time by the Angels to give help and guidance We get taught the rightful ways of living and what to eat and all the things that create a world that is a Heaven on the Earth.
We get lost in material things and greed sets in, this greed is from the dark forces, that try to take you over. These dark forces, want more, and more, of there wrongful creations which poison you. Not just your minds but poisons that are being made in the name of pharmaceuticals. Your Mother gives you all your medication free.
You are at a time in your evolving of waking up to a realization, that this is not the way it should be.
In your search of times gone past, you sometimes find something and when found you try to work out what it is.
Many ideas come into the mind. It is only when a being has become enlightened, can any truth be given.
This truth only comes from the prime Creator.
It is with joining your mind, with the Creators, that truth will come.
I have been blessed with this, and wish to give you any thing that my Father gives me.
I have promised my Father, that anything that he wishes me to pass on, with regards to answers to your questions, I will try to answer in truth.
I will be omitting nothing, our soul, and spirit, comes from the very highest.
I thank you so much Father, for all your gifts.Amen.
A Father cannot give out, all that is in his mind at one go. For to do that would destroy your minds.
Lessens have to be learnt slowly and correctly.
All good comes in time.
Light overcomes Darkness in its rightful manor, and all must stay in balance.
The Sun and Moon and all your planets were designed for balance, and harmony, that is equally true inside of the human body.
All has been made with the same principles.
Even a Dog knows what is good for him, and will eat of the grass for its medicine, and chew on a bone for the marrow that is within the bone.Sharpening and cleaning his teeth at the same time.
The earth is your Mother, and supplies you with all the food where you live, and to grows them at the correct times.
You may on occasion poison yourselves, but she gives you the antidote, to heal.
Your planet is one of the most wonderful of creations.
It is not yet balanced or completed, for that time is soon to be set in motion.
Angels are now gathering for your assistance. They come in love and peace, please welcome them back to the Earth. They have traveled many of your light years to bring love and wisdom and solutions they carry with them, much needed help for your survival.
The planet will be going through its tilt.
There is much to be done, I ask you all to take note that on the date of the 21.12.2012.
There is a planetary line up, that not only occurs every 26,000 years, but every 65,000 years. For on this date there will be one extra planet, that is in the line up. This Planet is Mercury, Which has this extra, pulling power, on our magnetic force field. It turns the planet over to a totally new position when the poles change, This was written in stone, because my Angels new it would be the only thing that may last upon this Earth because of so many floods that occurs over the long years. Your Brothers and Sisters are waiting in there ships to come to help you set up the pyramids to stop the total destruction on the Earth. My brother Scott speaks truths in his collecting of data much he has learnt and blesses him with much wisdom sent down from the greatest creator that has ever been known Bless you Scott I am tired so will join you again soon. Bless all the children of light, may you gather strength in numbers and wisdom Amen Janet

Gregory S (257)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 3:16 am
Janet, Your words are wonderful.

. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 6:35 am
Gregory, your statement that "reality changes moment to moment" isn't true. Reality IS. The universe doesn't care about your or my particular perception of its reality. Reality exists independent of our perception. Just because we may not see it, or understand it, or acknowledge it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You may personally be utterly and totally convinced that, say, eating a carrot a day will completely ward off cancer. That is not reality – it your ASSESSMENT of reality. But, the universe doesn't care about your ability to assess its laws correctly. You can eat all the carrots you like – and you still may get cancer.

And a young child may genuinely believe that he can jump off the roof and fly like Superman. That is his imperfect assessment of reality. However, gravity will work upon him just as it does upon the rest of us. And he will be injured or killed for ignoring and misunderstanding reality.

And your argument and analogy about penicillin isn't valid. I do not state things to be false merely because specific evidence has yet to be discovered in any particular case.

Specifically discussing your penicillin argument, before it was discovered I would have definitely agreed with the concept that it was likely science would one day discover a drug which would fight and cure infection. Because medical science is progressive. It sees a problem, studies the situation, looks at what has come before it, and builds on that. It discovers and creates new treatments all the time.

And when the original hypothesis was first made concerning penicillin I would have said, "Wonderful discovery. Sounds very, very promising. Now, Mr. Fleming – prove your case. Do the lab studies and the clinical trials and publish papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals showing the evidence that this new drug actually works. And how it works (if that can be determined, which sometimes it can't). And its toxicity. And what its major and lesser side effects are (which, of course, may not all be known for years). And then, Mr. Fleming, if other scientists question any part of your findings, openly and publicly work to refute them using credible evidence to back up your position."

And once credible evidence had been presented and all those conditions had been met I would have said, "Yes, penicillin does actually treat and cure infection."

That is essentially how science works. Hypothesis developed into theory. With everything then tested and attempts made to replicate the results. With the whole process peer-reviewed, dissected, and debated by other scientists. And with any facts backed up with credible evidence.

Of course, there can be differing standards for differing things within science itself. Certain theories are very easy to back up with empirical data. Testing a new drug is, in theory, a simple matter and one can get easily understood results. Not everything in science is that straightforward and there are different ways of getting at the evidence. And sometimes credible evidence exists which cannot be physically tested in any lab as yet – only through logic and correlation with other findings.

And by the way, your statement that some "naturopathic" practitioners knew of it prior to its development is misleading. Some mainstream physicians knew for quite a long time that, for example, moldy bread sometimes helped an infection. They just didn't know why. Or how. And hadn't developed the hypothesis to a theory. And hadn't tested it yet. It wasn't just "naturopathic" practitioners who knew that. And the same is true for any untested treatment. Many folk medicines have some real medicinal basis. They just await testing and presentation of credible clinical evidence.

. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 6:47 am
But the issue of Mayan prophecies is not scientific. It has no basis in fact. There is no credible evidence which reveals it to be true or likely to be true. In fact, there is no credible evidence that any such prophecies of any type are true. And most of the time the evidence is right there for all to see: the prophecy simply didn’t come true.

It's a matter of properly evaluating any claim. To determine if it is true, or if it is credible, or if it is suggestive, or if it is incredible, or if it is false.

Because there have NEVER been any known prophecies of that type which verifiably came true, and because this issue has been studied quite extensively by scientists and other researchers and found to contain no credible evidence, I think it is fair to say that this particular prophecy is untrue. There have been too many prophecies. And all found to be lacking in evidence. Therefore I believe the evidence to be overwhelming that the whole concept is untrue.

Of course I'm not talking about predictions made in the normal course of events based upon hard data (such as weather forecasting, for example, and other things such as that). Obviously. Nor am I talking about predictions which are so vague that they could be made to apply to almost any situation. Obviously those aren't real predictions. Nor am I talking about guesses which occasionally will come true a certain percentage of the time. I can make a guess that the Pope will die next year. And he might die next year. But that doesn't mean I made any kind of supernatural prediction or had any special or unique knowledge. It just means that there is a statistical possibility that the Pope may die next year.

For many (perhaps most) things I would not make a final determination of falsity. For any new idea I simply reserve judgment pending presentation of credible evidence. However, some things have been around so long and have proven themselves so thoroughly to be false that it is reasonable to make that conclusion. Of course, if hard evidence is ever shown to me I'll be happy to revise any opinion.

. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 7:13 am

And even when a "psychic" makes one really good prediction, it doesn't necessarily mean they truly have the ability to see into the future.

I remember once when I was a child my family and I were going out to eat. As we were getting out of the car I piped up and said, "Our meals are going to cost $26.35 in total." (I don't remember the actual amount, but it was a specific amount.)

And our total bill DID actually come to that amount - exactly. (Which is why I remember the incident so well.)

But I don't claim to be a psychic or a seer. I wasn't predicting the future. I wasn't seeing into the future.

I was just throwing out a silly little remark which coincidentally came true. Some people, however, when they see something like that actually read meaning into it. And they totally overlook the fact that no "prediction" of mine ever came true again!

Coincidence is something which many, many people refuse to accept. They latch onto something and foolishly generalize from one specific incident. When it comes to things like that, there must be a pattern of specific claims made which actually came true. Or the prediction must be of such astounding specificity and detail that it would be statistically unlikely anyone could possibly give that much detail without actually seeing into the future.

For example, if on that long-ago occasion I had said, "Our meals are going to total up to be $26.35. And the kitchen will accidentally give Daddy broccoli rather than the potato he orders. And the waitress will complain that her daughter's wedding is costing more than she anticipated. And right in the middle of dinner the lights will go out for five seconds. And the man at the next table will suffer a heart attack while we are eating."

If I had said all those things (assuming there was no way I could "set up" the situation by somehow physically making those things come true, such as bribing the waitress beforehand to talk about her daughter's wedding and futzing the electric system so that the lights would go out) - then it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that I had somehow genuinely predicted the future.

And if anyone has any credible evidence that any such specific known prophecy has come true I'd really enjoy hearing about it. By that I mean, any prophecy which has VERIFIABLY come true.

Scott Shaubel (816)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 8:00 am

Scott's Predictions,, "January 09, 2008 10:43 AM"

from Mystic Realm,there are more predictions of mine there

2008 will be the year that they will be showing us, some of the technologies that they have. Nano (alien) technology, nano radio - 1/10th diameter of human hair(now).

RFID - 1/20th diameter of human hair,(now)

these are bootable computers, existing NOW.

Holograms, you have seen them now, and accepted them as real. factual- with proof.

UFO - Alien, Media propaganda campaign, there are aliens and ufos, but the info they will give will be misleading.( already started)

People will find out about what is being done with SCALAR Technologies, like H.A.A.R.P. Radar, E.L.F. - extremely low frequency, electro-magnetic fields, anti - gravity, weather, climate and yes, mind control.

Einsteins theory (s) will be proven wrong.

People will become more informed about the power of the mind, soul, 5-D.

People will be more informed of the custodial nature of Earth.

The shift in conciousness will continue at an ever increasing speed.

More dis-information on their capabilities in space(travel,weaponization), time travel, synthetic biology. This stuff is here now, if any-one wants to check.

Keep this, its the future, people just are not willing to accept it. ( total brainwashing).

this will all be verified by all, soon.

There is LOTS more. Scott


Scott Shaubel (816)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 8:04 am

Scott's Predictions,, January 09, 2008 10:48 AM

You will se an increasing number of talking animals in the media, portrayed as your soul, but as a demon, when existing outside your body.(NOW), as portrayed in the golden compass, and the white light (photons), is bad dust. Crazy EH.

Scott S.
science fiction January 09, 2008 10:59 AM

Science fiction will turn into Reality at a break-neck speed.(mars, moon, etc)

Scott S.
conciousness January 09, 2008 11:07 AM

People will figure out that the only way out of the Agenda's all inlcusive program of keeping the population from reaching conciousness, via exitotoxins, freqencies, and fear, etc., is getting their right side of their brain working, through meditation, spirituallity, prayer, or whatever works for the individual.

Scott S.
talking animals , more January 09, 2008 11:34 AM

Every one knows that white light (photons) is good, but the campaign will be to promote the idea tha it is bad dust.

Also, the idea behind the demon thing, is to discourage anyone who thinks their soul can exist outside their bodies,(while alive) that your soul is a demon. What a load of crap.


. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 8:16 am
Scott, my dear, those are not supernatural predictions. You didn't "see into the future" using any special powers or using any special realm of previously-unknown knowledge.

Most of what you "predicted" was based upon a reasonable progression of known technologies (if I say that a total cure for AIDS will be presented to the world in the year 2012 and it actually happens - that doesn't mean I am an oracle - it's simply a reasonable guess based upon the fact that much AIDS research is ongoing and that a cure could be found at any time - maybe in 2012).

And some of your predictions are simply things that would DEFINITELY have happened in the normal course of events anyway. Of course people will "be more informed about the custodial nature of the earth." Each year that goes by more and more information has been presented to us about environmental issues. So that is hardly an unusual "prediction". In fact, what would have been surprising is if that prediction HADN'T come true!

And, of course, some of your predictions simply haven't come true. Not in any verifiable way with any credible evidence.

And, by the way, Einstein's theory of relativity hasn't been proven wrong. Like with any scientific theory, we receive new facts which may show that certain portions of any previous scientific mode of thought are incorrect or may be incorrect. Just because some of the details are shown to be wrong doesn't mean the whole kit and caboodle is discredited.

That's the beauty of the scientific method and science in general. It is self-correcting. Einstein disproved some of the theories of earlier (and very prominent scientists). However, that didn't mean that the entirety of those earlier scientists' work was discredited. Just some portions.

I now make a prediction: In the coming months, Scott Shaubel will post news items about the evil Queen Elizabeth. He will post news items about reptilian plots. He will post items about things with which mainstream science disagrees.

I really have no doubt that my predictions are likely to come true. However, I'm hardly an oracle or a seer. I'm basing those predictions on your own past performance. Looking at the situation logically and saying, well, since Scott has posted a lot of things like that over time it is reasonable to assume that he will continue to do so.

Of course, I may be wrong. But it's likelier that I'll be right.

And when I'm proven right on my prediction, then will you jump up and down and say, "Isn't Lindsey a wonderful prophet? Her prediction actually came true!" (When, of course, you'll do no such thing - you'll reasonably point out that I wasn't seeing into the future at all - just making a reasonable assumption.)


. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 8:31 am

And, some of the things you "predicted", Scott, had already come true BEFORE you predicted them. For example, you mentioned holograms - we've had holograms before 2008.

And many of your predictions are vague: "The shift in consciousness will continue at every increasing speed." WAY too vague and could be taken by you to mean just about anything. You didn't define exactly what you meant by "shift in consciousness" and exactly how you defined its continuation. You can later turn around and just pick something out of the air that actually happened in 2008 and say, "Well - that's what I meant by shift in consciousness...."

You predicted that science fiction will turn into reality at a breakneck speed. Well, that's been happening for many, many years now. How is that in any way a specific prediction? It has already happened! And will go on happening without question or doubt.

And frankly many of your predictions are simply too poorly worded and too much the rantings of a known conspiracy theorist to take seriously.

Scott Shaubel (816)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 8:37 am

I assume you can't figure much of anything out, and I assume that you comment with your superior brainpower, about everything, of which you know nothing.

Everyone is watching your display of fear.

shift in consciousness, is well covered, everywhere, you choose to be a dinosaur, extinct.


. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 8:43 am

Scott your comments immediately above are indicative of the problem I have been discussing all along. You are displaying one of the classic responses to a logical argument. You are revealing that you have absolutely no credible evidence to back up your statements.

Instead of explaining to me exactly how your predictions came true and refuting my argument with logic, reason, and factuality - you instead launch into an "ad hominem" attack, accusing me of stupidity, fear, choosing to be a dinosaur, etc.

And you do this in an attempt to divert attention away from the fact that you cannot back up your statements.

I have responded to your arguments with specificity, with logic, and with raeson. I have very carefully refuted them in detail and at length. Because, of course, I have credible arguments on my side. I don't have to try and distract everyone by using red herrings, ad hominem attacks, and the like.

The only people who use that type of rhetoric are those who simply don't have any strength in their position. Who are making a last-ditch effort to try and win over the opposition with irrelevancies.

Just one more nail in the coffin of your opinions.

. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 8:53 am

This is a cut-and-paste of a private e-mail Scott just sent me: "I'm done, (with your routine),, you are braindead as far as I can tell... fire away, and show all, how scared you are of reality."

Glad to hear that you're retiring from the field in defeat, Scott.

And, by the way, you are right - I am sometimes scared of reality. Because there is a lot of reality to be scared of. The reality of disease, the reality of war, the reality of prejudice, the reality of death, the reality of pain and suffering. And especially the reality of ignorance and irrationality. Those are real things, Scott.

And I note that, as usual, you have not tried to offer any specific refutation of what I've said about your predictions. Again, all you do it make silly attacks on the person - rather than actually sitting down and stating clearly and logically what is wrong with my position on each issue I mentioned.

So, again - another nail in the coffin of your opinions.


Scott Shaubel (816)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 9:09 am

you are delusional to say the least, the only thing I am retiring from, will be,.. replying to your 3D comments.

. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 9:21 am

Once again, Scott, not a single word of fact to try and refute what I have said. Not a single one.

For such a verbose person, you seem strangely silent when asked to provide factual, rational answers to those who challenge your cherished beliefs.

Just more ad hominem attacks.

That coffin of yours is getting pretty well nailed shut by now!

T A A (1)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 9:59 am
Thanks for taking the time to think and write clearly about this, and for your insistence on evidence that anyone can understand. Humans do not naturally reach conclusions that are reasonable or evidentially based - it takes hard mental work and honesty, and facing our fears of reality (the hardest part, in my experience!). There's been some interesting research lately on why people feel certainty (in relation to elections -
It seems to me these findings apply to most areas of opinion as well. Long life to Opus and Doonesbury.

. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 10:10 am

Thanks for the link, Anna. And it's nice to talk with another rationalist!

I now pronounce you to officially be a member of the PWATATRTJBAECIWCRTB, otherwise known as:

People Who Actually Think About Things Rather Than Just Blindly Accepting Every Crackpot Idea Which Comes 'Round the Bend.

Fellow members include Donni M. and Margaret Trainor, who are thoroughly delightful and rational people. New members are always welcome (very, very welcome.)

Our rallying cry is: "Insistence is Futile! We Shall Refute!"

Marie T (227)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 1:15 pm



Darlene K (356)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 3:04 pm
Gregory.., thank you for this video, and I will share with all. Deborah Hooper...I love that song. In my strong opinion, and "abilities"..., I will share that I sense Lindsey deals with Lindsey's own FEAR and there is no control within Lindsey with anything happening in the world. A huge clue is how Lindsey is wrapped in the illusion that Earth Science portrays. Earth Science has given us more false-truths than religions have given us. Lindsey's comments are full of denials, even when anyone trys to give another perspective. This is the right of ALL. If one CHOOSES to deny and lash out..., then that is their own choice on their journey of truth and knowledge. We can't try to force or make another choose what WE think, know, or feel is right. Don't absorb Lindsey's negative vibes, but instead use this communication as a learning tool. The perfect example of denial in a soul, who is in Fear, holds anger, and struggles with compassion.
While many function with a growing mass of awareness and consciousness..., others choose to stay in the "golf-ball" size of awareness and consciousness, and this keeps their Light energy within very dim. The Fear to think of anything beyond their scope without NASA or the Science community's endorsement, that strongly locks one in this physical world's illusion of false-truths that many others ARE rising above from....Much Love...Namaste

. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 4:53 pm
Revelation 21 Then I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth for the first earth had passed away and there was no longer any sea. verse 1 Revelation 20 verse 11. Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, the books were open. Another book was opened which is the book of life. The dead was judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the deadwere in it and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he has done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the of fire is the second death. If anyones name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. through 15. These are stright out of the Bible. For many do not believe as for me I do for one day it will happen. I push nothing down nobodys throath each there own, and Blessing to each of you for yes this is my Creator, My Lord and not a crack pot Thanks Scott.

. (0)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 4:55 pm
ooooooppppsssss Gregory sorry

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Sunday September 28, 2008, 5:11 pm

Joy, I respect your beliefs. Because you clearly cite them as beliefs and clearly state that you choose not to "push" them on anyone.

And what a beautiful avatar you have!

Suruna WTF (38)
Sunday September 28, 2008, 11:03 pm
This read has been quite an experience. I feel that I'd like to address my comments, primarily, to Lindsey.

You have an incredible mind. You've made many knowledgeable and valid points. Yet I'm struck by a vehemence that would belie a constructive effort, to educate? I wonder of your purpose, with so much time and effort invested.

For your consideration, you complimented Joy by respecting her beliefs, yet you kicked the shit out of Scott for his. If he was guilty, in some way, of "pushing" his on anyone else, I guess I didn't process it that way. I simply heard him expressing his beliefs.

Blessing Be, Dear Ones...

Peace Monger (185)
Monday September 29, 2008, 2:58 am
Thanx Gregory, the info contained in part 1 & 2 was interesting and up to each for their own interpretation.
Rather than debate with others, I think I'll join in with Deborah singing...
Time keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping, into the future.
I want to fly like an eagle
to the sea
fly like an eagle
let my spirit carry me
I want to fly like an eagle
till I'm free

Blessings & Peace :D

. (0)
Monday September 29, 2008, 5:58 am

Thanks for the kind words, Suruna.

I stated my respect for Joy because she specifically stated her beliefs as "beliefs". She spoke of a belief in the Christian god and in the Christian bible. Although I do not share that belief in any way, it is one which is quite normal in our society. In fact, it is the majority belief. And so long as there is no attempt to promote that belief as scientific fact or to force it upon others, I can respect the believer.

Based upon her post, Joy made no outrageous comments. Merely a Christian expressing her belief in a specific portion of the bible.

Scott, however, is unfortunately an irrationalist. I do not base that merely upon his post here but his postings throughout this forum. He promotes extremely odd beliefs in reptilians, Satanists, and the evils of Queen Elizabeth (all connected, of course). His many posts on this subject indicate almost a monomania. He promotes extremely wild theories and does so in a rambling and disjointed manner. He cannot state his thoughts in a truly coherent manner and, when his statements are challenged in a logical and reasonable manner, he does not defend them using logic and reason. He merely makes personal attacks rather than specifically defending his ideas. Unfortunately for him, his specific statements rarely can be defended logically as they are not based upon logic.

Most importantly Scott seems convinced of the truth of these strange statements and has contempt for those who do not believe his statements, despite his utter lack of presentment of proof.

I will happily debate anyone on any subject. All I ask is that their ideas be presented using logic and reason. And that, when a specific challenge is made to their ideas, they respond to it again using logic and reason. Scott does not do this and any debate is impossible with him. When presented with the clear and irrefutable illogic of his own position he merely attacks.

You're right - I can be vehement at times. It can be exceptionally frustrating to present a well-reasoned argument only to receive ad hominem attacks in response. And my greatest concern is that some people actually believe his rantings. They simply do not look at the illogic of the underpinnings and uncritically accept what he says.


. (0)
Monday September 29, 2008, 6:05 am

And, Suruna, I should also have said that Scott does not seem to understand the concept of credible evidence. Nor the fact that one who presents an idea must provide credible evidence to back it up - if he expects to be believed. He merely appears to think that all should believe his outrageous statements with no proof whatsoever - merely because he says them. Just as he seems to believe in things which also present no proof to the reader.

. (0)
Monday September 29, 2008, 7:03 am

I should also clarify a statement I made above to avoid any misconceptions.

When I stated that Joy's Christian beliefs are a majority belief in this country I did not mean to imply that just because something is "majority belief" it should necessarily be given scientific credence or greater weight. Obviously I do not accept the prophecies in the Bible as being scientifically accurate.

However, this type of belief is usually taught to someone from birth as part of their religious upbringing. Many intelligent, logical, and thoughtful people hold religious beliefs (Christian and otherwise) that I may not necessarily agree with. But their holding of those beliefs does not automatically mean they are incapable of logic in other areas of their life. It simply means they were taught to have faith in their beliefs and may simply accept them as true for that reason. And, of course, faith is an unanswerable argument since it is not subject to logic or evidence.

That is quite different than uncritically accepting strange conspiracy theories as an adult, a time in one's life when one should have developed the logical faculties to see through the pseudoscience and irrational beliefs all around us.

Danielle L (146)
Monday September 29, 2008, 9:18 am
SO argumentative...if u don't believe, move on & let the rest of the people feel good about something. This is what works for some, maybe not why r u still here? I'm the farthest thing from RELIGIOUS...but that does not mean I have a very narrow mind. If u get closer to the beginning, I think u get closer to the truth. Kind of like Chinese telephone..but not really. I enjoyed the video..and there will come a time when people recognize the UNIVERSAL ENERGY THAT IS VERY REAL & NOT A MYTH

. (0)
Monday September 29, 2008, 10:07 am
Danielle, the function of this forum is not just to talk with other people who agree with you. It is to discuss issues and debate all sides of them. If you only want to hear from people who agree with you then you need to find a forum which is restricted to one group of people only, such as believers in astrology or the like. Not an open forum. However, I personally enjoy debating people who disagree with me. Life would be very dull if we all believed exactly the same thing.

And if you choose to think that "feeling good about something" is adequate reason to promote belief in it then that is, of course, your right. However, many other people prefer issues to be promoted because of the evidence supporting them rather than how the idea makes us "feel" - and also like seeing pseudoscience and irrational arguments debated and debunked (if the facts warrant it).

Anyone who bases their beliefs in life upon how those beliefs make them feel is, in the opinion of many, unlikely to be able to make wise judgments concerning political decisions, healthcare decisions, and other matters. Which is why some of us think that examining an argument logically is the best way of determining how to arrive at the truth.

Of course, no one is required to accept that logic and empirical evidence is the best method of judging the world around us. I happen to believe that it is. You obviously don't. Of course, the universe doesn't care what we believe. It only cares about reality. And "punishes" us when we ignore its reality. That's why I prefer to try and find out the way the universe really works. Rather than accepting pretty theories because I enjoy what they say.

Linda H (13)
Monday September 29, 2008, 11:13 am
Actually Scientists have predicted the grand alignment of planets-I think that is what its called, it has occurred many times and each time something happens to the earth, possible shifts in the magnetic poles, axial tilts and things like that. I find it interesting that we may live to see one occur. I don't disbelive it because scientists have pinpointed the date. I do believe also that there is a great awakening that is going to come to people and it's going to be good, but painful to many who do not accept it. We are evolving, only its on the inside. Our minds are changing and growing whether we acknowlege it or not.

Here is a quote from my favorite author," The Key to interpreting the Rapture is understanding that it will not be a Religious event." Mary Summer Rain, is the author.

It pretty much sums up what I belive. The Rapture is for everyone-not just the religious. It will be a time of unconditional love and forgiveness not vengeful punishment by an angry god. I belive it will be a time when people's mind are finally opened and no longer closed to their own abilities and gifts.

Douchey McBaggerson (9)
Monday September 29, 2008, 1:51 pm
I have a different prediction about 2012, actually. Picture it:

It's the Winter Solstice of 2012. Bob Saget's face appears on the Sun, causing the burning debris of exploding satellites to rain from above as Paris Hilton rides out of New Babylon on a seven-headed Lindsay Lohan. Meanwhile in Washington, John McCain scrawls “666” on the doors of the West Wing with a Cartier La Dona Menagerie Fountain Pen, and the Spice Girls celebrate the release of a new album while their name on the album cover rearranges into the ancient Sumerian code word for “Apocalypse”, which a flexing Arnold Schwarzenegger bellows aloud with his distinctive Austrian lisp as he watches "The Wizard of Oz" while listening to the song "Dark Side of the Rainbow" by Pink Floyd.

I am not really convinced anything except for that will happen in 2012.

. (0)
Monday September 29, 2008, 1:59 pm

Sounds pretty reasonable to me, Douchey.


Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 8:04 am
Linda H...Excellent point. Many have been brainwashed to believe Astrology and the study of the planets and their influence on our lives is hogwash or evil. Christianity put this rumor out long ago to prevent the masses from benefiting and keep them under control.

Actually, Astrology is a science. Farmers have been guided for years on when to plant (new moon) and when to harvest (full moon). Police and fire departments know that more violence and bloodshed occurs during the full moon. The US military used Sydney Omarr, a great astrologer, full time for years to help with their strategic plans. Leaders of countries have used Astrology for centuries on when to conduct certain business, especially when to go to war. Bush continues to use this tool. Personally, when I create natal charts, I can predict when certain individuals come unglued at certain times of the month.

During this current September, we are going through a MAJOR transformation which is affecting us all. Tip: Astrology in newspapers is for entertainment. A true understanding of Astrology can take many years to learn, discipline and accuracy.

As my mother told me: Until you fully understand a subject and then cannot disprove it, keep an open mind, otherwise you will remain ignorant and foolish forever.

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Tuesday September 30, 2008, 8:11 am

Unfortunately, Marion, astrology is not a science. Astronomy IS a science - but that isn't astrology.

I have never yet seen any credible evidence that astrology has been proven as factual. I have never yet seen any credible evidence that the predictions of astrologers have been proven as factual.

If you took ten "top" astrologers and asked them to provide horoscopes for the same people - you will get many different horoscopes. And, of course, including a heck of a lot of generalizations which could apply to anyone.

I find it telling that although James Randi has for many years offered a one million dollar prize to anyone (among others) who could utilize astrology to provide accurate information, no one has ever won the prize. Because astrology doesn't work. It is not scientific. And when an astrologer is tested under conditions where no "fudging" or inaccuracies are permitted - they simply can't perform accurately.

There have been many top minds who have thoroughly examined astrology throughout the years. And astrology always loses.

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 9:08 am
Some end notes on Part 2 of the video:

We are entering "The Age of the Spirit of All Living Things" or an Age of Enlightenment. When these descending souls regain awareness of the essence of life, rather than the form...regain a sense of energy and spirit, rather than physicality and matter...once they gain that, they gain the real power of life again, and they start to awaken to the Spirit of all living things. This age coincides very much to the Christian bible's section on 'Revelation' that says for a thousand years Satan will be bound and all evil on the earth will go.

The age after that is "The Age of Melting Into Oneness Again." There's a return to the great, collective Consciousness, where all these souls that were created and given free will and life to go out and grow and become companions to their Creator. This period coincides with the first chapters in the bible's 'Genesis'.

This look at Mayan prophecy is an uplifting, promising look vs. the dark end of the world look...the idea that evil will conquer good, or darkness will overcome light. But most of the ancient prophecies and the ancient peoples themselves said 'No,' good will overcome evil and light will overcome darkness...forever.

Much thanks to Gregory, Scott, Janet, Serge, Marieemma, Dar, Kim, Linda and Danielle for your input in this enlightening thread! Far too many live in a static, material world that is crumbling around us because we have lost the way and don't remember we are spiritual beings in a physical world...for the time being. When we learn to love and respect all living things - even the dull and ignorant - we bring honor to ourselves and the Universe and will transcend this plane of existence.

"When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." William Blake

"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." Mohandas Gandhi

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

“Answer them [critics] with silence and indifference. It works better, I assure you, than anger and argument.” Gioacchino Rossini

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 9:17 am
"When this occurs no one will be able to lie because we will all be able to read each others minds. "

Greg, excellent statement. Many can read through the lies now. It amazes me that so many could not read Bush, Cheney, McCain and others long ago. Body language, expressions, vibrations, rhythms, electrical pulses. Women have been known to have an intuitive capability more so than men. However, it can be learned and more are acquiring this natural ability. Going deeper, we can learn to communicate telepathically.

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 9:21 am
FEAR = False Evidence Appearing Real

When we say we fear someone or something, we are stuck in a world that lacks faith, hope and spiritual awareness.

Fear has caused many of the evils of this world. The opposite of fear is LOVE.

Scott Shaubel (816)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 9:51 am

Right on Marion, I think I'm right about here,..
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

“Answer them [critics] with silence and indifference. It works better, I assure you, than anger and argument.” Gioacchino Rossini

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 10:41 am
And this one is from me to you, Scott...

""When I tell the truth, it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those that do." William Blake

Scott...Keep enlightening those who hear and respect your thoughts. It takes courage to do so and I admire you for that. I may not always understand you, but I will always defend your right to be heard because I admit my own limitations and may not yet be aware of your reality. Those who fear you fear their own limitations. Nothing here can really harm us but ourselves. Walk by faith, not by sight. Peace, Light and Love, Marion

Scott Shaubel (816)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 10:54 am

That is greatly appreciated, Marion, Thank you, from the bottom of my Heart.

. (0)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 10:55 am

I thoroughly agree with you, Marion. I also strongly defend Scott's right to be heard. However, I'm afraid I can't agree with you statement that you may not yet be aware of his "reality." Reality is not an individual matter. Perception of reality is, however, an individual matter. However varying perceptions do not change reality itself. Reality is what is. We may not fully understand everything about the universe around us; however, that doesn't mean there are varying realities. It just means that there are still facts to be uncovered.

Gravity exists whether or not one acknowledges its reality.

Scott Shaubel (816)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 11:05 am

lindsey, I have submitted numerous articles, explaining what gravity is, and isn't, and all about quantum physics, Einsteins incorrect formulas, for
realativity, and special relativity,. etc, etc, etc,

I have to explain, and do,.. "a lot of stuff", to very educated people,
I have several that work for me,. and I talk to lots more.
.. Scientists, doctors, etc, and it takes them a while to get it, if they even do,.so I really don't expect you, or most of the people here, to get it,

But I try,..

Stories submitted: 1055
Front Page stories: 939

you should do some reading,there are still facts to be uncovered.

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 11:13 am
As always, you're welcome, Scott.

Anytime someone contradicts themselves and attacks you, be suspect. Anytime someone says they fear you and the material world they are firmly planted in, give them wide berth and let them pass through. Your time is best spent on those who you can benefit.

Care2 is a place to share, learn, teach and grow in an environment of respect and giving dignity to each other. We attack the subject, not the person, for a healthy discourse which does not occur when we let our egos, insecurities and fears get in the way. Aligning people on 'my side' to make an enemy of you is a perfect example of bullying and need for recognition. Making you look bad, makes me feel good. We must move away from this in order to grow. And those who think their education level makes them superior or an authority need to look at people like Bush and McCain who finished at the bottom of their classes.

This is a wonderful, enlightening topic with great input. Ignore the naysayers as grounded ships you are passing in the night...

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Tuesday September 30, 2008, 11:17 am

The definition of gravity isn't the issue, Scott. Whatever its definition - it exists. Whether or not one acknowledges it - it exists. Its reality and definition do not change according to the perception of the individual. It exists for us all. It will work upon you in the same way it will work upon me.

Which is exactly what I was saying to Marion.

I do not doubt that as time goes on we will learn new facts about gravity. And about every area of science. Science is progressive and new discoveries are made every day.

And when any new discovery arises I will happily accept it - once it has been evaluated by experts using the principles of the scientific method and ultimately determined to be valid based upon the level of scientific knowledge at that point in time.

I do not claim in any way that new ideas cannot supplant the old. That has happened throughout the entirety of human history. I just believe that acceptance of any new idea needs to be based upon credible evidence. Not blind faith.

Darlene K (356)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 11:24 am
Marion..., you just don't know how inspiring it was to read your words...So many who are experiencing this phenomenon of "awakening" to Truth and Knowledge of this world..., question why so many sleep...STILL. I sure hope there are many more Marions out in this world. You give Hope even to the Lightworker, that more are moving away from Fear for the "right" reasons of their own, and shifting towards the expanded awareness of Love and Light. Thank you for this strong inspiration. Many Huna blessings..Much Love..Namaste

Scott, you KEEP SHINING brother of Light. Much Love..Namaste

. (0)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 11:24 am
I'm curious about your statement, Marion. You say that we should be wary of people who fear things in the real world.

You mean that you do not fear pain and disease? You do not fear the rapists who live in our cities? The terrorists who bomb innocents? And so many more things?

Obviously it is perfectly reasonable to fear known dangers. Fear is a survival tool which allows us to fortify ourselves against the danger. To criticize someone because they fear rational known dangers is rather ridiculous.

And to fear those whose minds are fixed upon irrational purposes and exhibit an inability to perceive reality is also perfectly rational. History is littered with the chaos and destruction caused by people like that.

Darlene K (356)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 11:31 am
In my strong opinion, "fear as a survival tool" against danger, IS the old paradigm of thinking to the response of this programmed physical world. That is Truth. Many throughout ancient civilizations or even Tibetan Monks, have this understanding...., through a strong connection to their "true self." To fear Death, is the first challenge that the physical self must overcome. We are spirits of energy having a "Human experience." You can't create nor destroy a soul or energy of the Divine Source..

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 11:48 am
Thank you kindly, Dar. Lightworkers come on different levels of awareness, skill and specification. Mine happens to be that of inspiration and empowerment for Lightworkers. Their task can sometimes get heavy and discouraging on this plane. I suspect you are on that same level from the way you appear in and out of threads with words that heal and inspire. We are no greater or lesser than the next person. Just at a different level of awareness and life work. Much love to you too!

When we remove our egos, arrogance, insecurities and fears from our interactions with others and life in general, the Universe speaks to us, magic is possible, and we can experience Heaven on earth...or wherever our spirit goes.

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Tuesday September 30, 2008, 11:54 am

Dar D and Marion, I strongly suspect that if you happen to be confronted by a knife-wielding assailant intent upon killing you that you will feel quite a substantial amount of fear. And that fear will hopefully cause an adrenaline rush which will heighten your awareness and will help you to ward off your attacker.

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 12:00 pm
Excellent explanation, Dar. Death is merely a transition from one plane of existence to another and should never be feared. Pain is relative to one's awareness level. We will never experience more pain than what we can handle. Your example of the Monks is a good one. Prayer, meditation and communing with nature in a truthful, loving way can alleviate pain to the point where many do not experience it. Yogis, martial arts (kung fu, tai chi...) teach this. Also, those who do the least harm to others usually do not fear death. Their spirit is clean and free to move on when the time comes.

Do I have any fears? Only that I might fail to help as many people as I can before leaving this existence. Have I faced death? Let's just say I've been to the bottom a number of times with only my faith to bring me back. :)

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Tuesday September 30, 2008, 12:05 pm

I'm not sure that I understand you correctly, Marion. Are you saying that we should not try to avoid pain or death? That we should just accept whatever comes and not take sensible precautions to avoid it when we can?

I can't quite make out your meaning.

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Tuesday September 30, 2008, 12:07 pm
And your statement that we will never experience more pain than we can handle isn't correct. Many people experience pain to such a degree that they cannot handle it - and choose suicide as an end to the pain. Which is quite rational in my opinion.

Marion Y (322)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 1:07 pm
"I can't quite make out your meaning. "

I seriously doubt you will ever get my meaning as you enjoy playing games. You may continue asking me questions, but I will not respond further as I see how you play games with others. The conversation on my end has ended. You will not have to 'expose' anything I say to you as it is public for everyone to see. Those are the tactics of people who are vexatious to the spirit and fear greatly. Goodbye and good luck!

Tuesday September 30, 2008, 2:17 pm


. (0)
Tuesday September 30, 2008, 2:51 pm

Hello Elgin Lee! Hey, I get THREE stars!!!

Darlene K (356)
Wednesday October 1, 2008, 10:16 am
Lindsey...., you choose to experience pain to such a degree that you can't handle it, just as one chooses to exit the ride when they are so consumed with the low vibrational feelings of "no way out." We all know..., there is always another way.....

You can choose to Fear death, but I only say that one doesn't have to..., when they realize our energy of soul moves on still...., if a soul does choose to cross-over. Once you conquer your Fear of Death or Fears of anything..., your initial response to an attack is defense with strong Light and Love...(martial arts is wonderful) However, if you die...., you don't Fear what awaits your soul, IF YOU LIVED A GOOD LIFE, no matter how long or short one lives, in this lifetime.

We are all equal...We are ALL One. It is only our life choices, through Free Will that determine how much misery we bring to our challenges or how much joy we bring to our life and others. I have been a spiritualist for over two decades, and I have done much research of Truth in everything for the last five years, because I was driven to by some unknown force when I was ill and isolated to my home. Something happened to me last year, after learning that a horrible crime was committed against my then 11 year old daughter and it brought me to my knees...The guilt I felt from not protecting my daughter was overwhelming and I was consumed in negative thoughts and feelings, choices I MADE from my own weakness at the time. No one was blaming me, but myself.

Maybe it was the strong prayers I was constantly feeling combined with my meditations that I had an experience of awe....that I can't explain in words, and now I have tapped into some of my "abilities." I am still learning, healing, and servicing in this lifetime. I still stumble and I am not perfect. The learning never stops.

I Forgive the offender of my daughter, and I Forgive my step-father and half brother for the sexual/emotional/mental/ and physical abuse I endured throughout my childhood. I have already been attacked a few times, and Death has winked at me. Life is so much easier when one functions with strong positive thoughts and choosing the correct positive emotion.

It is with constant loyal practices of doing this process with Truth, that one can react to a "fearful" situtation with a quick check on one's feelings and thoughts. Then they can react to a dark situation with strength of Light and their abilities. Fear no longer has its tight grip on one's soul, at this point.

I tell you all this, because I am a walking believe...I have researched much Earth knowledge and found Truth, and I have experienced too many awesome experiences. It all happens so wonderfully, as one "knows it", "feels it", and "be it".....All Life on Earth is presently going through an ascension process with Mother Earth, and has been going on for the last few decades. When Mother Earth completes her ascension, we complete ours, and that is when EACH SOUL has the CHOICE to ascend with the Lights of mankind. A soul will be stuck reincarnating in the third dimensional Earth of destruction, disease, survival, and so much more, for ages before they can find their "true self" or Light, again..., and ascend. The dead and the living will ascend, if they choose it. All souls are participating, regardless if they "remember" or realize it.

One's thoughts, words, and actions..., manifests their own tomorrow and fate of the future. One who is in denial of their own "true self" will live with much LESS joy in their life, then the one who believes....This world is so beautiful, if you look past the rain to the beautiful flower.

I sense very strongly that you only want to debate, so you are still at a "golf ball" size of awareness and conciousness. You can always expand it, but it is YOUR CHOICE to stay where you are in growth of spirit. All human-beings who have chosen to incarnate in this time period, are the most courageous of souls. We just need to remember "who we really are" which will gives us insight to our own life purpose or mission.

You are Free to choose your denial, even after I gave you the Disclosure Project which gives you Earth evidence to some very serious Truth. You refuse to even view the video, since you complained over the $5.00 to join and support these brave men and women of the Disclosure Project. These are scientists, physicists, astronauts, and many more of NASA, CIA, Dark Ops, and all those wonderful agencies that were suppose to be working for the greater good of THE PEOPLE. The dark alliance's days are numbered...., and we can soon manifest very strongly, our own Life on Earth. We can then use our "abilities" to learn so much more of this vast universe or others. Everything happens for a reason, in lieu of Free Will.

As the days get darker for mankind..., you will always have the choice to believe or keep denying...I hope you do find your true self, at some point soon. You are a beautiful Light in the sea of humanity and your light just needs to brighten by your choice. Many know me as WHO I AM, and I will continue my mission, no matter who Fears. Many souls have been ascending for years, and no one has to wait for mankind.

I leave you with a quote from a man I admire very much...

“Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe – a spirit which is vastly superior to that of man and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.”
- Albert Einstein


. (0)
Wednesday October 1, 2008, 10:57 am
Dar D, I also admire Albert Einstein greatly. And my favorite of his sayings are these:

“A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.”


“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

Like Einstein, I have an “unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.” There is such astonishing wonder that exists in our universe, from the mysteries of deepest space to the amazingly populated little ecosystem existing in my back yard. I find a great deal of joy in looking at the images which came to us from the Hubble Telescope and in seeing what new and fantastic things were being discovered on a regular basis.

The real world, and the real scientific mysteries it contains, has so much to offer that I simply cannot understand why there would be any need to develop a belief system in the unreal or the unproven. In fact, it is the scientific search for knowledge that is perhaps even more exciting than the actual acquisition of that knowledge.

And again like Einstein, I do not base my actions on fear of punishment or hope of reward after death. I try to base them upon my own ethical beliefs which are grounded in this world rather than a supernatural realm. I don’t believe in the concept of a soul. If, after death, I’m proved wrong – then I’m wrong.

Evelyn Z (300)
Wednesday October 1, 2008, 4:37 pm
Thanks Gregory

Peace Monger (185)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 2:02 am
Excellent post Dar, truth of who/what we are and the choices we make.
To add....
I'd rather believe in a higher Universal Mind now and be proven wrong at death, than not believe and find out at the end of my life I was wrong! :O

Each of us has the choice and I'm comfortable with mine.

Robert Garvin (46)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 8:44 am
Wow!!! I see everyone was getting a little uptight here. Although there is much that I may disagree with Lindsay particularly with her assessment of the Bible, I feel I must speak in her favour regarding her assessments on predictions. i also notice that some folks are quoting parts of the Bible and unfortunately, from my own study, I find that there is a misapplication that is being used.
The generality about Revelation and Genesis sort of jumped out and hit me. Obviously the persons who are happy to use these references have missed a whole lot of other evidence.
If you will permit me for a moment Lindsay to point out something I feel is in your favour. From my personal study of the Bible I do not find that man has a soul. It states quite clearly that into man was breathed the breath of life and man BECAME a living soul. He was NOT given a soul. The animals were also "souls"
God specified that there were rules to live by and He expressly stated that the man and woman were NOT to eat from the tree of knowledge of Good and evil, NOT because they were not allowed to eat it but because it was a test of their allegiance to God. To eat it was to prove that they did not trust God when He said that "Eating from this tree will bring death and if you regard my Love for you, you will not eat of it". Now, as Lindsey says, one does not have to be a prophet to see that what happened is just a fact of life. Yes, I know you do not believe it Lindsey but i am pointing out something that folks may just not have understood.
Adam and Eve were given everything that they needed in the garden. they were given a test and that test they failed when the arch enemy offered them something which seemed to be true, but in fact was a falsehood in that it was only a half truth. satan stated that if they ate the fruit, they would become as gods knowing good and evil. He also insinuated in this that they would go onto a higher level or into a new dimension. Many religions teach this same thing today but unfortunately it is only the doctrine of the deceiver.
Many folks understand that they have out of body experiences or NDEs. I have just finished reading a book by a fellow who was a satan worshipper back in the late mid forties but who became a Christian through some rather incredible ways. His book is called BEWARE OF ANGELS. He tells the story of two ladies who felt they were being led by God's shining angels but after they had murdered some people who were supposed to have gone off the rails and were now totalled, meaning they were beyond redemption. They belonged to the same church as the author so he investigated their story for himself and found that what he had learned so long ago was exactly what they (the satanist high priest) had predicted they would do to christians.
During his investigation there turned up lots of evidence that these people should have recognised as being that of the arch deceiver but they were so sure they were being led by god that they did not investigate these wrong points.
Had they been more discerning and investigative like Lindsay is, they would not have fallen for the trap. They missed the point that there is no such thing as an immortal soul which has the opportunity to be manipulated by others with this thing of pressure like, "If you don't do what I am telling you the Bible says (when it doesn't say it at all) then you are going to burn in hell. (religion at its worst and why Darwin turned away from religion). They actually believed that when one dies, the breath goes from them and their thoughts perish. This they forgot and were fooled by the cunning deception. The satanist priest had laughed as he told his congregation how the master (satan) was able to fool christians and others into believing that they had an immortal soul instead of just being a soul.
the statement is made that we should not take away others comfy beliefs. If one is let go on in a false belief without the falsity being pointed out to them, then the one thing that God hates most is when "good" people do nothing. there is much in the Bible prophecies where the thing came to pass many years later than when the prophecy was made.
There is not sufficient space to cover those prophecies here but I would be happy to do it for anyone who cares to look and assess it for themselves. Some prophecies come down to exact days and it is quite interesting to see how many were completed by those who would have destroyed them if they could.
I guess Lindsey will now give me a blast as well but she has not looked at or understood those prophecies and where they are in history being made as prophecy and where they were fulfilled. Maybe I am judging you wrong. You do not have to believe the Bible is correct to see these predictions and their fulfillment. Its just history for all to see. Quite often, to see it all, one needs to set aside preconceived ideas first. Of course, anyone can take Bible texts and appear to prove their particular theory, but the Bible is its own interpretor and must be allowed to do that otherwise one can come up with any self accommodated story that makes them "feel" good.
I still love you Lindsey and I like your enquiring mind. Keep doing it the way you are because from what you are saying, I see you will not be fooled by trumped up "beliefs"

. (0)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 9:07 am
Nope, Robert - you aren't going to be getting a "blast" from me! I appreciate the kind words. And, as I said previously on this thread, I do very clearly see a difference between faith in religious matters which has been taught to an individual since birth and is almost an intrinsic part of Western society, and pseudoscience/odd beliefs encountered in adulthood. One involves a deeply held lifelong faith in a religious concept - the other, frankly, usually involves a willingness on the believer's part to latch on to any exciting and weird theory which comes down the pike rather than explore and appreciate the true and real wonders this universe has to offer.

If you haven't seen it yet, Robert, I posted a news article talking about studies which showed some of the reasons why people believe in conspiracy theories and weird things. It's at:

Very interesting reading, actually.

Although I certainly disagree with the accuracy of the Bible's predictions and much of its historiography that's a separate matter.

Always enjoy your posts!

Darlene K (356)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 12:35 pm
Robert...I have to say that I do hold some scriptures sacred in the Bible, but I DON'T find this holy book accurate in its entire holdings. I have studied World Religions, and being raised a Roman Catholic..., there was a very strong reason why I became what I label, a spiritualist a couple decades ago. The Dead Sea Scrolls, the Sumerian Tablets..., and each new artifact unearthed through archeology is bring more truth to Mankind. I respect your beliefs, and I will add that ascension ISN'T a religious term. Religions are what humanity developed for various reasons, but mainly as a way to "tie-back" an individual to God or whatever one sees the Divine Source to be...AND this action is a beautiful thing. That is why I respect all Religions chosen by the souls of Light.

In my strong opinion, God let souls incarnate into this third dimensional Earth just as he does throughout the Universe. We are a primitive species in the evolution of celestial beings. Certainly, I believe..."We aren't alone"..heh. WE, "the souls in this lifetime" have brought Mother Earth to the point of freeing itself from its ill state of this dimension. She needs to go through a cleansing process that she has gone through many times.

I choose to believe in the Truth that resonates with me, as everyone should do. In my very strong opinion, new evidence of the past civilizations has strongly shown that Adam and Eve didn't really come forth as "The Bible" states in its stories. Christianity is the youngest of the Four main relgions of this world, and the most misguided with scriptures that were not included and many that were misinterpreted over the 3000+ language translations by many people.

One will have a hard time finding the real Truth, in a holy book that has been manipulated as "The Bible", if they choose to study just its holdings...., of course this is my humble opinion. Archangel Michael still guards the gate to the Tree of Knowledge. The Emperor Constantine I is who gave Christianity its "door" of opportunity, but he did it to strengthen CONTROL over the people of Rome. This is where Church and State became ONE. The wonderful Christians were manipulated by a political union, behind the curtain, and still are today. I was amazed when the Pope announced that their are extraterrestrials..........., something I ponder on The Church's INTENT.

However, I was even more taken-back when Vatican withheld the Third Secret or Message that Lucia, of the three children who were given these messages from an apparition of the Blessed Mother Mary in 1917, until 2006. The Third Message was supposed to be given to the catholics in 1960, but the Popes kept debating that the message wasn't for "their time"

From wiki.
"Yet Sister Lúcia was still forbidden to reveal the Fatima Secret. She remained under an order of silence until her death in February 2005, unable to speak freely about Fatima without special permission from the Vatican."
"The third secret, a vision of the death of the Pope and other religious figures."
This message speaks of an awful slaying of these religious figures and their blood sprinkled by angels on "the people", after soldiers slay all of them. The interpretation of this meaning is heavily debated, and I give it no energy. What will be..., will be.

If anyone is trying to control anyone..., it is The Roman Catholic church. God is an ALL-LOVING God, NOT a God of Fear. Yes, I am involved with many strong psychics, and I don't remember Edgar Cayce who has written oodles of his work, saying or doing anything that consumed anyone in a world of dark entities. However, you must prepare and shield yourself to deal with other dimensional spirits or beings that have a lower vibrational INTENT. One can't play around with the spiritual realm, if one doesn't know what they are doing, because they will pull a dark entity to their existence. There is a dark realm and a light realm to every dimension, and they operate in harmony as separate realms.

I love Wiccans, because the honor Mother Earth and the elements of her, Air, Earth, Fire, and Water. They are a loving group of people, who have endured much public hatred, because the population was given incorrect propaganda from the Church. Everyone should be physically feeling different these days, if they really spend more time on themselves, and less time in the "rat-race" of materialism. Christians have been fooled, since day one of the these beliefs. However, people of ALL religions are "awakening"
to what is happening, and many are scared and confused with the changes they are experiencing.

One of the many many jobs a Lightworker can take on..., is helping those who are asleep or in such Fear that they have manifested a demonic entity. The Dark Realm is very powerful, and can provoke a soul into making many more bad choices that will attract and manifest more negative energy. They reach out for any soul..., and consuming a Christian soul is no more a victory than consuming a Buddhist soul, a Hindu soul, a spiritualist soul, or any other soul of Light that has incarnated in this world. The beautiful thing..., is that these challenges strengthen the Light within us, if we are balanced in our trilogy of Mind, Body, and Soul. Work past the Fear and learn from the lessons of eacu situation. I feel and see the Light energy within ALL, and I look beyond their physical self. Our souls want to advance and many will.

I believe the writer you speak of..., is very correct because some dark entities can deceive the soul as a benevolent being...BUT THE TRUE SELF WILL RECOGNIZE the deceit by USING THEIR OWN abilities of strong intuition and more.., but many get caught up in the visions and not the "meaning of it." NDEs are countless in our history, and within the last century many have had a beautiful LIFE CHANGING experience that they work to help others with their Hope, Faith, and Love. For every ONE NDE of negative deceit there are several NDEs that have been very very positive. These women HAD a very dark experience, because of the reasons unique to THEIR actual experience through THEIR thoughts or emotion of it....., and this can be a negative experience. However, many more have experienced a glimpse of Truth, and have grown stronger in faith from the POSITIVE experience through how they handle their unique situation of what thoughts and emotion they felt from their experience. Many even decided to review the Bible from this experience, unfortunately.

Anyone having a NDE, can tell a TRUE ANGEL OF GOD by using their own abilities to judge if this Angel is working for the GREATER GOOD, or the darkness. An angel would NEVER ask anyone to commit murder, heh. That should have been a red flag, but they were too consumed with their reaction to the experience. Most chose to murder, without the statement of "the devil or angel made me do it."

Dark entities have become rampant in this world, because of many things that WE have allowed and given them the power to be.....The ascension is the only way to rid Mother Earth of these negative energies, because mankind never rose above the darkness..., and manifested it themselves. They have empowered these negative beings. I suggest giving them Love and Light. They will usually bolt away, because the frequency and higher vibration of Love and Light is too harsh on their lower frequency and heavy density. However, give them the lower frequency of FEAR and they will THRIVE.

The Tree of Knowledge..., is of Truth and Knowledge..., Truth = White Light and Knowledge = Dark Light. This is why the Tree of Knowledge is strongly guarded, because of the strict understanding of what it bears. Knowledge MUST be BALANCED with Truth. For one to believe only what one is told by a world with full of corruption in every sector of LIFE, will mislead one.

There are NO prophecies anymore, and we manifest what the furture will be from the negative and positive quantum possibilites. Mankind has been gifted with the wonderful strong Light Beings of Jesus, Buddha, and many more. They gave mankind words of strong wisdom and practices. God or whatever one sees the Divine Source to of ALL and ALL is of God. I have had the pleasure of chatting with a few shamans and mystics who are filled with strong White Light and abilities they use to help their people from illness. Many along with the Tibetan Monks, are very knowledgable in self-healing..., and don't need the medical profession of $$$. This is profound, and I suggest reading Gregg Braden's writings, who is only one of several, of these remarkable events, that he and other scientists brought to Western Science. They were told that they would look at this evidence when they find a cure for cancer........................The dark alliance won't let the Truth go mainstream, because it will empower the People. God will save no one from what is to come..., we created this and must rise above it ourselves from the growth within. The people have been deceived in everything.

Einstein was a perfect example how his intelligence with Science, changed how he viewed the Spirit and a force that was of ALL. The Theory of Relativity is so debated now, because of new discoveries of Truth. No one ever questioned this theory, until new evidence was presented..., the debate only exists so THE PEOPLE don't get closer to the Truth of "who we really are" and how much Energy of Light we all have, and UNITED the people would be an unstoppable force.

I do agree with you Robert..., that ALL must keep an expanded awarness anchored in Love and Light to be able to react to their experiences with a balanced Mind, Body, and Soul. Fear can kill you in many ways from the spiritual realm as it also can from the physical realm.

Much Love and Peace...Namaste, Dar

Marion Y (322)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 12:55 pm
"The generality about Revelation and Genesis sort of jumped out and hit me. Obviously the persons who are happy to use these references have missed a whole lot of other evidence."

Robert...This reference to Revelation and Genesis was not from me. Rather I was quoting the video so others could quickly see what was in that video in case they missed it.

I appreciate your comments. I too enjoy and welcome enquiring minds. What I do not enjoy are arrogant, divisive, combative people whose egos insist on hurting others and bullying them into submission.

Care2 represents just that: caring, sharing, learning and bringing out the best in others so we all grow. With Lindsey's abrasive manner, she will always need to be rescued from more respectful folks like you.

It's not always 'what' we say, rather it's 'how' we say it. We can be the smartest person in the room, but if we turn people off, our brilliance is wasted.

Robert Garvin (46)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 4:18 pm
Well, one thing I did learn was that when I went to bed it was close to midnight here in West Oz but shows up as 8.44 am so that means that my time is 15 hours ahead which was very interesting.

First, thanks for the kind words Lindsey. I guess we will have many interesting discussion in the future. I will be away from my habitation for a couple of weeks but my son has wireless broadband so may be able to access it when i get there. So who knows how much we can discuss?

Dar D, Thank you for your dissertation, I see some value in what you have written and there is much there that will be discussed further down the trail. The name of the Author of the book is Roger Morneau, a French Canadian fellow who also was originally a Roman Catholic. His first book that I read was called, "A Trip into the Supernatural". A number of other books he wrote are "Incredible Answers to Prayer, More Incredible Answers to Prayer, and then, When YOU Need Incredible Answers to Prayer" and the last one he wrote was this one, "Beware of Angels". His story in itself is very fascinating because he was going down the same path as yourself. He was finding that there was something that just was not adding up and he was looking for answers. He actually challenged God to show that He even existed by putting him in contact with someone who could answer his questions. He was going to dedicate his life to the satanist group but he just wanted to be sure. The satanist Priest had made some pretty strong statements about what they were doing to "christians" yes ALL christians were being worked on and the basic eastern beliefs were being infiltrated into every christian denomination but there was one in particular that the "master" hated above all others and he made a great speech as to what their intention was against this "church". Roger had never even heard of it. I will cover more on that at a later time.

Marion, Marion, I can see that Lindsey seems to be rubbing you up the wrong way as others may feel the same thing, but, Lindsey is not one who will be hood winked by generalisations, she is not going to be duped by anyone, she wants good solid answers and this I appreciate so please do not be hard on her. She is protecting herself by taking this attitude and the rest of us must respect where she is coming from. She appears to attack me quite strongly, but I do not see it as hating me, she gave me a list of some 406 statements where she feels that the Bible contradicts itself of which I am slowly going through and checking. She has been told a silly statement like "The Bible is inerrant and there are NO mistakes in it. What most folks do not know is that there are some 2400 grammatical, punctuation and translation pieces that were instituted into the King James Version but I still feel that the KJV is still the best one to go by except for one that was a parraphrase by a chap by the name of Jack Blanco which is called "The Clear Word" Unfortunately, in finding what he felt was being said, he stated the obvious too strongly and trod on a lot of peoples toes and it made the obvious wrong beliefs stand out so that everyone really did not have to look too hard to see where their favorite beliefs just did not fit within the Bible framework even though they were so sure they did. Most folks feel that he was too much like Lindsey, "a spade is a spade so don't try convincing me its just a dirt moving implement" because "that" is not specific enough and Lindsey has the right to demand that of the rest of us.

I do find for myself that I need a solid base to stand on to evaluate what someone else says and so does she. We are looking at things from different angles, I prefer to put my trust in the Bible because of the Prophetic challenges that were filled in throughout the Bible. How they have been fulfilled so accurately in history. Lindsey chooses science to be her standard and we must respect where she is coming from. Lindsey has obviously seen so much of the supposed prophecies that have gone belly up that she has just gotten sick of "the Bible says so". Whether she reads the Bible or not I am not sure but I do feel that she has some very valid arguments and must get answers for them. I am not the smartest kid on the block in Biblical knowledge but will endeavor to give her some meat to chew on but I do not have all the time in the world to sit at my computer so it will happen in bits and pieces or I will never get anything else done. that is not a cop out or an excuse, I have to get some work done around the house or I will finish up with a divorce. ("that"s my excuse and I have to stick to it) So expect more over the next few months. Sometimes my answers will be on other C2NN stories. Please forgive me if you feel I must put it all down right away because that would take me months to just sit and type and I must not disregard other things that must be done.

. (0)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 4:35 pm
Quite right, Robert, on a number of counts. And, as you said, personal feelings have nothing to do with it. You appear to be a very intelligent and largely rational human being (and I have a feeling quite a decent person). Anything I "attack" about you will be a statement of fact or occasionally opinion - not the person.

And you're also right in that I have seen FAR too much of fundamentalist religion in my lifetime. Except for a short foray in Germany, I've lived all my life in the Bible Belt. I have an ex-husband who was a member of the Church of God (where, at that time, female members still couldn't wear make-up, jewelry, or trousers.) I have a brother who is a Catholic convert (who has become more "Catholic" than most lifelong Catholics). I have a sister-in-law who is convinced that atheists should have no legal rights in this country. I have a step-sister who lectures me on creationism. And a father who is convinced that interracial marriages are forbidden by the Bible because every animal went onto the ark two by two, "each according to his own kind" (and, of course, blacks and whites aren't, in his opinion, the same "kind").

That is unfortunately the society in which I was raised. And you don't survive in that kind of environment without developing a great deal of assertiveness just to ensure that you aren't trampled underfoot.

And, yes, Robert - I have also heard far, far too many people around me make the claim that the Bible is inerrant. After all, the South is the primary breeding ground for such creatures!

Marion Y (322)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 4:49 pm
Thank you for your response, Robert. You didn't seem to acknowledge my response to your comment. Did I miss something?

"The generality about Revelation and Genesis sort of jumped out and hit me. Obviously the persons who are happy to use these references have missed a whole lot of other evidence."

Robert...This reference to Revelation and Genesis was not from me. Rather I was quoting the video so others could quickly see what was in that video in case they missed it.

Robert Garvin (46)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 6:49 pm
Hi, just back for a few minutes, still lots of work to do though. Marion, I watched the video and it does not matter whether it was yourself or the video that made the covering statement, As Lesley will and has stated, generalisations are not really specific. She will not let me generalise either, she wants hard cold facts and most folks are not prepared to get down to the nitty gritty. "Whether it is "the Bible says" or "it could be that the story in Genesis could be referring to this point or the book of Revelation mentions this type of situation", Lesley is looking for something solid and not etherial. It is our responsibility to present something more than some generalisation which could be this or could be that. To her it is just not good enough. She wants something that has a solid foundation. I appreciate that she questions everything and wont be fooled with some fanciful thoughts with no sure foundation.

To tell that God says He is and that He is a rewarder of those that trust Him may be fine for one who understands the spiritual side of life, but Lindsey wants substance on which she may base her Faith, If she is supposed to have this faith. that has to be a fair statement really, don't you think?

The only way that she can be able to assess something is when we present to her something that she is able to prove and that is where we must start.

Time is up, must go back to work.

Darlene K (356)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 7:24 pm
Unbelievable..., many blessings to you Marion, and you have much patience.

I respect ALL religions, I respect ALL who rally to support someone who is lacking in areas of understanding....

BUT I DON'T RESPECT, the behavior of some activist who find articles that they don't agree with, engage in rude and disrepectful words to those who don't agree with them. Just as I agree to disagree, others can use this wonderful tool. In Lindsey's own words she is an atheist, and she continues to insult with her opinions.

In fact these words to me from her in news article from my general comment to the article;

"Sunday September 14, 2008, 5:36 pm
And, Dar D - there is simply no gentle way to put this. Were you whacked out on LSD when you wrote the above comment? I have rarely read anything so densely packed with nonsensical and almost unreadable notions."

These are her words, and she does this only in the articles she disagrees too. Was this comment necessary? I forgive her..., because it is obvious, WHO really has the problem communicating with others in difference of opinion. I wasn't even engaging with her, and this pops out. Maybe it is the cuddly animal that allows you to accept her abusive nature in these articles.

Many don't agree with each other, but ALOT of them are respectful to each other. Robert...., what foundation of faith do you see that she is planting for herself??????? What "substance" do you speak of that she needs?????

Mainstream Earth Science? Well, it is going to be a LONG WAIT..heh. They aren't going to give the people ANY information that will empower them. AND I will not empower a soul who has negative INTENT towards another....

Astrophysicists and many other scientist have ALOT of evidence, for Truth, but some just don't want to accept it..., until the government (lol) says it is true. Particle react differently when they are OBSERVED...., scientists were baffled..., because everything changes with this simple discovery. I really don't care how long anyone wants to sit and wait for Truth with the governments ok. That is there choice, but to read YOUR words of passively empowering anyone that it is okay to behave in this manner, I will respectfully say, I Agree to Disagree.

She loves debating and fighting, period. LOL Bless her soul. It doesn't matter to me if she believes in God or a Prime Creator. THAT IS ALL ON THE INDIVIDUAL. I only care..., when the people are being exposed to more false-truths and/or are being bullied, bashed, or attacked in these posts.

Marion I can't send you another star..., I already did..heh. Much Love...Namaste

. (0)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 7:49 pm
Robert, the difficulty with the concept of religious faith is that it essentially isn't subject to evidence. There is so much in the Christian Bible which is miraculous in nature, with miracles being obviously beyond the realm of science (and thereby being impossible to prove - or disprove, of course). And divorcing the mundane from the miraculous is difficult to do.

And even the mundane aspects are difficult to accept. Such as the fact that every branch of science which even remotely deals with the subject has very firmly concluded that no Noachian flood occurred, certainly not within recorded human history. And things such as that are an exceptionally major part of the whole. Once those building blocks are removed the edifice, to my mind, simply starts to crumble. Faith may well hold it together; however, since I require an intact edifice a real problem exists.

Robert Garvin (46)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 8:00 pm
Just nipped back to the computer for a minute. Dar D. there is much so called science which is not really science at all but only a statement of faith. That is where Lesley is at at this moment of time. She has been whacked with so much religion and now she is fighting back. the religion she has been whacked with is demanding of "You've got to believe this or else" and that is NOT what Jesus Christ is about nor His Father either. We must be able to give some solid foundations upon which our faith is based.

I have had religious people tell me that i need to believe certain things when i have already studied on that subject and already know that they have missed so much of other evidence but they keep this overbearing stance that what they are saying is absolutely what it is all about. They refuse to look at anything that I present until I agree that what they are saying is the be all and end all and there is nothing else of any consequence until I accept their interpretation. I totally dislike that attitude and will refuse to push it onto Lesley.

She can only begin to have any faith in the Bible IF she has been presented with a solid foundation. She is like those people in the Bible who Paul was preaching to, the Bereans. They did not accept anything that Paul preached until they had checked it out for themselves. We owe this courtesy to Lesley regardless of whether we think she is up the garden path is of no consequence. Fact is what she wants and fact is what must be presented. Many have some apparent truth but when fully investigated, there is much error in it as well. Truth is truth yesterday today and forever and there is a basic that must be presented. Without that basic on which to stand, there is no foundation. Lesley has what she feels is her foundation now. If you want to shift her to a different foundation, you will not do that with a baseball bat. Here is a lady who has known so much hurt that of course she will have this "armour" around her and will fight for her survival. I would too.

Must get on with my work while most of you will be eating your evening meal and heading for bed I will be having my mid day meal shortly.

Robert Garvin (46)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 8:12 pm
Hi Lesley, I will bring you some evidence on the flood at a later time. I have met two particular people who have actually been to Noah's ark site in turkey. Both have taken photos of the Ark itself, taken measurements, compared them with what the Bible says was the size of the Boat. By the way, it is NOT on Mt Ararat as most religionists have believed but is where the Bible says it is in Genesis 8, verse 4 In the mountainssssss of Ararat, an area, not on the mountain itself. there are so many evidences around the area in the names of various things that could not come from any other source. Will give them later on for all to see for themselves but must go now before the day is gone and I have got very little done.

. (0)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 8:12 pm

Actually, Robert, I don't think that the correct phrase is that I have known so much "hurt" when it comes to religion. What I felt for the fundamentalist religious values I've seen around me throughout the years (in so many cases) is distaste. And an absolute conviction that whatever the truth may be it certainly won't be found there.

By the way, someone had asked if I had ever actually read the Bible. Yes, I've read it twice straight through (and many other times I've read portions.) Once, probably about 20 years ago or so, when I read it through the second time I actually started taking notes (filled a notebook or two.) Of all the things that I simply couldn't reconcile. Then researched them. And, although some (of course) became clear when researched, most did not. And remained unreconciled.

The Bible (the King James version, NOT the modern common versions) is a magnificent book - probably the most influential the world has ever known. It is a truly significant literary masterpiece and I believe that everyone should have at least some familiarity with it. Rather like Shakespeare (and even the cadences often remind me of Shakespeare.) And, of course, it contains quite a bit of wisdom (just as most significant religious texts do.) But I see what wisdom it contains as philosophic rather than divine.

Marion Y (322)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 10:13 pm
Robert, I hope responding to me hasn't taken you from your work. I can understand though, because I work from home and have a family too. But I truly do enjoy my friendships and contacts here at Care2, at least those relationships that make me feel better after interacting with them, as well as where I can uplift, enlighten and help others grow and feel better about themselves as well.

If Lindsey wants something solid, she’s in the wrong thread, and so are you. This is an ethereal conversation and way beyond what you two seem to comprehend. The discussion is not a debate on whether this Mayan Prophecy is real or not. We were discussing an understanding of the meaning of the prophecy. What you folks have done is essentially CRASHED A PARTY because you don’t like the subject.

I too studied religion. Matter of fact, I graduated from a prominent Christian university where we studied ALL religions – the good, bad and ugly. It’s a fascinating subject if you like that topic. Frankly, I find that all religions have the same basic premise. From what I have learned, the bible has been manipulated, rewritten and revised to suit the controlling powers that be, which is why there are so many interpretations and controversy. It amazes me that folks who relish studying the bible so much, sometimes miss the essence of practicing it in their own lives. America has fallen victim to that and we call them "hypocrites." I would much prefer to interact with people who LIVE the Word, rather than preach or analyze it.

Something that I think troubles you and Lindsey (atheist), as well as others deeply rooted in traditional Christian beliefs, is this New Age move toward collective Consciousness. To understand this philosophy and grow into it, the individual MUST first love themselves, and in turn love all others. An argumentative, controlling nature is disruptive to the spirit of those trying to achieve this goal. It doesn’t happen overnight and in many cases, it can take years. Some never achieve it. But it is disrespectful, insulting and sheer evil to prevent the growth of others as Lindsey, and now you, are doing here.

Under normal circumstances I would send this in a private message to both of you. Since Lindsey likes to post private messages for everyone to see (vindictive), I will say it here.

You say Lindsey wants cold hard facts, well here it is:

The snarky, disrespectful attitude Lindsey has for those she disagrees with is arrogant, rude, childish and selfish. And you should know better, Robert. You are her friend, but you would not want to be treated like she treats others, I’m sure of that. However, there is more to this than the two of you let on. It seems Lindsey has an agenda to end this type of information and conversation from taking place, and you are her accomplice. There is a tone of vindictiveness (exposing a private message sent by Scott), ruthlessness (trying to get members to side with her by attacking Scott, following Scott around in his threads and harassing him), and vengefulness that has no place at Care2.

“YAWN............” This was Lindsey’s response at one point to Scott. This does not invite conversation, it doesn’t request “cold, hard facts” and it certainly does not “get down to the nitty gritty,” as you have said. It’s rude and childish.

Because I work and have family too, interactions with folks like Lindsey – you had referred to Lesley, but I think you meant Lindsey – are vexatious to the spirit and not worth my time. Quite frankly, she sucks the life force out of those she decides to attack, much like a vampire does with its victims. In support of her, you are simply more of the same, and the conversation with both of you offers no value.

You may respond if you like, however, I am ending this conversation on my end. It has no added value. Good luck and have a good day.

Robert Garvin (46)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 10:15 pm
well, another hour gone and I am back. Lesley, Its good to see that you have read the
Bible at least twice. You are one up on me as I have never sat down and read it from cover to cover. My wife has.
A friend of mine was trying to emphasize a point about some idea he had come up with and to push his "authority" he stated that he had read the Bible from cover to cover 5 times and that he felt he had a very strong grip on what it had to say. He was pushing an idea that each day of the Genesis beginnings was in fact a thousand years and he quoted that a day was as to the Lord as a thousand years and that a thousand years was as a day. Then he quoted where it was found in the Bible.
From that he had a hypothesis that if a day was a thousand years and a thousand years as a day then it just stood to be common sense that since there were 365 days in a year then that represented 365 thousand years for every day of creation.
I asked him how long this would have been the time reckoning for and he said it would have been right up to the time of the actual flood when everything suddenly changed. I asked him to put it to me again so that I could get it correct and so he explained it all over again. I asked him if in fact that was how it worked, then Noah would have been in the Ark for thousands of years before the flood actually came. He said that i was being a bit stupid on that because when Noah went into the Ark it started to rain straight away. I said, actually Noah went into the Ark seven days before it started to rain.
He pulled this "I have read the Bible through 5 times and I have NEVER seen anything like that. Its not true." I turned up in his Bible and read it out from Genesis 7:10, and it came to pass after 7 days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
He was so taken back that he grabbed the Bible and said, "I have read the Bible 5 times and I have never seen that before". I said to him, "It just goes to show, one can read over something five times and still never see it when they have a preconceived idea. Sorry".

I have just called one of my friends that have been to Noah's Ark and worked around it and he is sending me a number of videos showing incontrovertable evidence. He states that there is so much evidence around the world that it would fill many books. One does not need theory to try and work it out, it is there for everyone to see. I am also getting some information on polonium or polodium whatever it is, halo s. Will pass it on to shock you a little more when it arrives. Actually it would be better if I could send it to you via snail mail and then you could check it out at you own leisure. Only trouble is that everyone else wont get to see it but I guess it could be posted on from one to the other. We might have evolved into something else by the time it gets around all who want to see it. LOL. that's not nice, I shouldn't make fun of something so serious should i. Please forgive me while I have some lunch.

Marion Y (322)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 10:15 pm
Dar…Thank you my friend, and the same to you. It’s always uplifting and energizing to interact with you. You bring LIFE wherever you go.

I too respect all religions AND all people, even those who don’t believe in religion, until I determine it is best to move on.

I fully agree with all that you have just said and support you in that. Now that this thread has taken on a totally different topic, I will carry on this discussion with you and the others elsewhere where we can learn and grow without interruption.

Ten ‘ethereal’ stars for you, Dar. Hugs and Love, Marion

Robert Garvin (46)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 11:26 pm
Apologies to Lindsey, I called you Lesley and it has just been pointed out to me. How stupid of me. Oh well, a slip of the fingers is no fault of the brain, maybe.

As for the information Scott has placed in here, I have two choices, I can accept it as a theory which appears to have some evidence or I can check it from other perspectives. To get to the bottom of the whole thing is to check it out from a different angle. Scott is presenting information that he feels is absolutely correct. I respect him for that but I ask that I also be given the right to disagree and I use the information that was written in my last script. The fellow's name was Dennis and he used to tell me all about flying saucers and how things happened with the starting of Noah's flood. He had been backed up by scientists who had flown him personally to a location somewhere in Australia and he was so sure that he had everything absolutely scientifically backing his argument. I gently let him down with actually showing him something that he had totally missed. Scott's turn will come later but it can not be done without the presentation of the basics and I will probably be more inclined to do it privately than in this area.
Of course I am Lindsey's friend although we differ 180 degrees in our "beliefs". When someone casts a smear on Christianity then it seems that it is okay by everyone but if someone points out problems with any other religion, then that is a NO NO. Not allowed, let us believe what we like and Please, stop rocking our boat.
Is that really fair when so called Christians have brought so much disrepute on the Bible?
Is it not right that someone needs to set the facts into a realistic position? Am I to be told to SHUT UP and keep out of the picture. All the world is a stage and we are also the spectators. Everyone has the right to speak up when they see indiscretion and unfair play.

I find Lindsey quite challenging and she makes me go back and study my basics. Is she my enemy and sucking the very life blood out of me? I do not think so because I have a solid base on which to stand. I have seen too much evidence to feel threatened by someone who is investigating what is Truth. Truth can stand on its own base as nothing else can.

The Mayan Prophecies appear to have much merit in themselves but when they conflict with other information, it is our responsibility to investigate it and assess it with honesty and not hearsay or some nice fuzzy feeling that makes us feel good.

I find Lindsay seems to be looking at things the same way. One can not have a number of different contradictory arguments and all supposed to be "The Truth", it is either truth or error. What more can I say? Have a wonderful day.

Also i give my apologies if you feel that we have hijacked this site with something that is not relevant to the subject. The relevance is that there is something that is being discussed by the fellow in the video and he has referred to the subject that both Lindsay and I are somewhat passionate about although we are not in agreement as to where we see it from.
I can see where Lindsey is coming from and respect her comment. I respect that you also have your own beliefs and do not want to change them, that is your choice but do not come back at me with "You knew and you never told us! If we had known about all this then we could have done something about it." There is so much just ahead of us that has an undercurrent of pseudo christianity that is going to affect every one of us. Everyone has the right to know and if it means I have to do it and cop the rotten apples and eggs and tomatoes then so be it. I am in good company with many of the early Christians because they got the same treatment. Oh! Please, use the guillotine so it will be much quicker and i wont feel it. They are already there and waiting for us who disagree and it WILL be done in the name of religion and particularly so called christianity. It will all be for the benefit of humanity. You will only recognise it when it is all happening and then it will be too late to do anything about.

I could be wrong but i think it was Mark Twain who said " any religion that needs government backing to expand, is a wrong religion" He was right because so called christianity has done it in the past and will do it again. The noose is slowly being drawn around the people's necks but because they have virtually put lambs wool on the noose everyone feels comfortable with it.

At the present time, Lindsey would probably be my executioner but I still like her and will share with her the evidence she so much desires until they drop the trap door or the guillotine blade. Why should i be so presumptious as to think I should be treated any better than my Lord and Saviour was?

Darlene K (356)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 11:27 pm
This is too humorous..., a Bible follower, trying to give wisdom and the Ark location to an atheist, IN A NEWS article of the MAYAN Now THAT, is whacked but cute. Heh, at least you both bring humor to this news. (..Gregory.., I love ya..)

I thought letting an individual find their OWN Truth, regardless if we agree with it was a good suggestion without insulting another. However, this dialogue between you two is much more entertaining..Lindsey.., you must feel so much better, now that you are finding.."your foundation"...., with ummm a personal preference to what Government Approved Science provides for humanity. It seems Robert is very good for your..., understanding of scriptures of the Bible.

Yeah, I will not get in Robert's way of ummm, enlightening you. This seems very important for you both. I will keep with the Mayan, Sumerian, Egyptian and more expanded consciousness. You know the civilizations that the Bible has so many similar stories from...heh. You all keep working with the Bible, and I will just step over----------->here :)

Much Love and Peace...Namaste


Darlene K (356)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 11:36 pm
tsk tsk tsk...that isn't very nice, and I reflect that back to you, hun. Now don't let your Light dim too much more...heh. I STILL LOVE YOU, LINDSEY...MMWWAHHH. Bunches of hugs. Much Love and Light..Namaste, Dar

Gorgeous H (142)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 11:43 pm
Scott...well said. I agree with your thinking..2012?? Who knows!!! There is supposed to be a huge UFO appearing to the world on October 14th (google federation of light October 14th) Well again...let's see huh? I hope so!! but i doubt it!!

Gorgeous H (142)
Thursday October 2, 2008, 11:54 pm
Robert: I am curious... To which branch of christendom do you subscribe?

Peace Monger (185)
Friday October 3, 2008, 1:19 am
It is the heart that experiences The Universal Mind, not the reason. Thus The Universal Mind cannot be reasoned to be and has no concept of the magnitutude of The Divine.
This truth goes beyond any one religion, for The Universal Mind is too great.
Blessings to all.
Nameste m'friends!

Robert Garvin (46)
Friday October 3, 2008, 3:39 am
Well, it looks like Lindsey has spat the dummy. Just when it was starting to get interesting. When someone has had religion up to the eyeballs and demands real answers instead of soft fuzzies and unfounded supposed Biblical statements where it is all mixed up with a whole lot of Eastern Religious beliefs, I guess it comes to be too much for her to take and I feel she has a point.
Many folks move in the direction of the Eastern Religions because they make no demands on ones conscience or being accountable to the God of the Bible who claims to be the Creator of the universe and therefore above every other God.

Many would say that the Bible has been copied from other ancient religions such as were practiced in Egypt. This is not so. There is evidence that there was only one supreme being that was worshipped (or not worshipped) up till the time of Nimrod and then there is a division to the worship of the stars and degrading still further to thallus worship which then spread out into the eastern countries.
The Zodiac was originally a totally different story to what it is seen as today. The religion of the Mayans also moved in the direction of sun worship. The high alters for the sacrifice of humans, particularly beautiful females or young children.

The Bible has given some startling predictions from way back in the time of Nebuchadnezzar which mapped out history down to our present time. The predictions were accurate as history will give evidence of things that would happen and they have. We have had the four great empires spoken of in Daniel and according to logic there should have been more, why did it stop with the four and then go into detail as to what would happen with the last one. There is much detail in there about that fourth kingdom dividing up into 10 and then 3 of those being removed by another one that came up later.
It is worth a good read but only after one has collected the 26 or 27 points where the Bible will open itself up so anyone can understand it. Without those texts which say "this means this" and it leaves nothing to be misunderstood. Without those texts to guide you, you can come to a number of ideas which are or can be way off the mark.

Anita, Your curiosity will just have to wait. Most folks have ideas about certain things like say Amway which is a good business and has good products, yes, I use LOC but I am not a member. Many years ago I was but what I find is that most people have a very warped idea about what it is all about. I have heard them mouthing off what they believe about the business, they could not be further from the truth.

It is the same with certain Christian denominations, folks get so many things twisted up that I just do not bother to say I am a ............ anymore. I find I can talk with folks much better if they do not have a biggotted opinion to start from. It is much easier to present real truths that are not overballanced by some religious name so all I will say is that I am a Bible believing Christian who is not from the line of "you've got to do what you are told" mob.
Sorry if that is not the answer that you wanted

There has been so much archeological evidence found that backs up the Bible in a multitude of ways and which just IS because it is where it can be seen, but there are folks who refuse to accept it and will find any possible way they can to try and make it of no value. If it contradicts this Mayan calendar and that which is supposed to happen doesn't, then the whole thing will be changed and put off to some other time. This is what folks were doing with the Bible as well.

The general consensus of what is supposed to happen according to Biblical Prophecy also comes under the same challenge. the predictions are way out of kilter. There is the jehovah's Witnesses who started off saying Christ would come in 1882 or thereabouts and when it didn't happen they moved it on for some further years until they eventually settled it on 1914 and they have their explanations as to why.
There was another group who were called Adventists because they believed that jesus was going to come on October 22 nd 1844. They were not a specific religion because they were from all churches. They misunderstood what some of the prophetic points were pointing to and finished up with egg on their face. there were some who decided to look further and found to their Chagrin that they had overlooked quite a bit of evidence that was already there. They had to admit they were wrong in their original interpretation.

Along come Herbert W Armstrong with his Radio Church of God and he starts predicting what would happen in 1975. It seems that he was so strong in his "evidence" that even the JW's started saying the same thing. Well, 1975 came and went and it just did not happen. This is what happens when folks get quite dogmatic about what they believe is going to happen.

Thinking people start to get annoyed with all this mixed prophetic ditherings. I do and so did Lindsey. I can see where she was coming from but how many others did? Only what you wanted to see and that is quite sad really. She was crying out for someone to give her some real facts instead of just warm fuzzies. Well she is gone now so i doubt we will hear from her on this programme any more.

When i read information in these columns and it stands out to be totally anti Biblical, some of it I may answer but a lot I just let go by and do not even bother to comment on it. Other information I find to be quite enlightening and appreciate what has been written. If i feel that I am able to add to it then I do endeavor to give another point of view which may just stimulate someone else to dig deeper for themselves and find something that they had not thought of before.

To comment on a lot of statements that i see coming up, it is quite obvious as to where they have come from and they are believed with great zeal but you do not know their origin and frankly why should I tell you? You will not believe me or even look at the full evidence. I was prepared to tell Lindsey and then you might have just seen what you are playing with without feeling that you were being targeted. there is much more behind the scenes than the average person even realises.

Catch you at some future time but keep up with the good stuff as it IS worth reading.
Oh well, I will see you at some other time and place.

Peace Monger (185)
Friday October 3, 2008, 4:09 am
Robert, to quote a part of your post which states..."Many folks move in the direction of the Eastern Religions because they make no demands on ones conscience or being accountable to the God of the Bible who claims to be the Creator of the universe and therefore above every other God."
Again I write the Divine Mind is too large for any ONE religion, all religions lead to The One Mind. To claim 'ownership' of Truth is neglecting to see Truth for what it is, we are ALL children of the Divine.
The Bible is a profound book, however, it is not the only truth in the world. To claim it is is to deny God His magnificence.
There is conscience and accountability in other beliefs and to state there is not is to again ignore God in favour of what organised religion teaches.
Robert, my post is not intended to attack or belittle your beliefs, but to clarify how others perceive the Universal Mind; although differing from your beliefs, these beliefs are valid too.
May Peace be upon you and yours today and every day.

You know there really is still a chance for peace and that chance will definitely increase if we each do our piece. So let’s make peace -- in our homes, in our own hearts, in our relationships, in our communities, in all of our dealings and in the world. Peace be with us all.

Robert Garvin (46)
Friday October 3, 2008, 6:08 am
And while we are all trying to make peace, we have forgotten that the heart of man is evil continually. We can push and try as much as we like but there is NO way we can make others toe the line. We can be like Ghandi or Martin Luther King, but unless there is accountability to something greater than ourselves and who is able to know the future exactly and forecast it hundreds and even thousands of years before it happens, we can say peace and safety as much as we like. We can not change the sinfulness of even one person. God volunteers to do that for us but even He will not force a person to believe in Him, He is too much of a gentleman to force His way. We are invited to come to Him. He has set the rules of the engagement, not me. I would so much like to believe that what you are proposing is "the real way" but unfortunately there is just too much evidence against it.

You are responsible for what you believe and I will be held accountable for what I believe, but on top of that, I am held accountable for what I could and should have shared with you but chose not to. Once I have done that, I can still love you and care about you but I am no longer accountable for what I should have done but did not.

Maybe, just maybe I should point you back into history to see what a dominating religion did during the dark ages. that is why it is called the dark ages, they murdered and slaughtered over 120 million people in the name of "christianity" unfortunately, it was only a name because they certainly were not acting as a Christian should. They murdered innocent people who only wanted to do what you have the freedom to do today, freedom of worship.

Enjoy this freedom while you can because soon it will be taken from all of us and we will be back in the clutches of the Dark Ages again. You will have no recourse to justice and this is all laid out in the Bible prophecies and the way things are going right at this moment of time, the whole thing can be instituted over night and you won't know anything about it till there is a knock on your door and then it will be too late.

the Supreme God of the Universe has foreseen the evilness of his enemy and warned us about it. The evil one has set up so much falsity of religion that one has a problem trying to work out which is the right way to go. That which seems the right way to a man (or woman) will end in destruction. Either God is correct or we are and I think I know which way I would be prepared to hedge my bets and it would not be laying my money on our own so called intelligence. (not that i am a betting person as i will not make a bet unless i know for sure that I have all the evidence that i am 100% sure.)

There is the true and the counterfeit. Most folks choose to follow the counterfeit thinking that it is he one true way but have no idea on how to check which is truth but they follow their own supposedly intelligent directions. I have been down that road and do not want to go there again. The pain is too great and one never gets over it.

Gorgeous H (142)
Friday October 3, 2008, 9:27 am and Lindsay sound like you are on the same "boat"'s the so called "christians" on this planet that are responsible for pushing this genocidic "war" (occupation) in Iraq.
"By their fruits shall you know them"...well, and in corinthians it say "If i have not love...then i am become a brass sounding cymbal" That about sums it up Robert. Murdering people for the government i.e. Over 1.2 million civilians dead..raped and tortured in Iraq is not a "christian" act.
"Many will come to me in that day and say "Lord didn't we do great works in your name?" Look at Jesus's response.

"We can be like Ghandi or Martin Luther King, but unless there is accountability to something greater than ourselves"

Robert will you listen to yourself...!!!!

"Many folks move in the direction of the Eastern Religions because they make no demands on ones conscience or being accountable to the God of the Bible who claims to be the Creator of the universe and therefore above every other God."

Oh dear...Robert you really don't understand do you? I bet you voted for Bush!!
May god have mercy on your soul!!!


Friday October 3, 2008, 9:46 am
NOW THAT I HAVE HEAR FROM THE LIGHT WORKERS AND THE HOLY ROLLERS I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE DARK WORKERS AND THE SATANISTS .............please please with all thats unholy take their hands and tongues .........blind them and rape their flesh with painful cancer............may no breath be without pain my their eyes and flesh weep blood............may their wounds never heal and their minds run ...................


Gorgeous H (142)
Friday October 3, 2008, 11:51 am are too funny!!! LOL!~!!!

Robert Garvin (46)
Friday October 3, 2008, 2:16 pm
Anita, You are so correct, "so-called christians" but I do not get your drift because your quote above is either derision at me for some reason or other but you are saying the same thing that I am. the man you mention is heading you back into the Dark Ages and using the very same techniques. Do you think I would vote for one who hijacked his position and "claims" to be a christian? Your country was founded on the freedom of religion and soon they will take that from those who choose to worship as true Christians, who would rather treat people as Jesus did. The way you all want people to be treated. You object strongly to how "he" treats people and then you want to call him a "christian" just because he claims he is? You go on and quote some Scriptures, how come you can't see the fraud? His fruits should give him away. Of course all he does will supposedly be for the good of the people and he does it also in the name of Christianity--high jacked christianity and everyone else will be happy to go along with this falsehood including Elgin as his statement above seems to jokingly make quite clear. Many a true word is spoken in jest. Unfortunately, You might just get your wish.

When the Children of Israel were in the desert heading for the promised land, they complained and griped and said to Moses, "Would to God that we had died in the wilderness" they got their foolish wish and only two of over 600,000 men over the age of 20 actually went into the promised land. We need to be careful what we call for Elgin.

When it comes to pass, you will then say,"So that stupid guy was right after all" I am not a prophet nor do I make any such claim. It is only what has been foretold and since it has all happened before, history repeats itself. Ghandi and King paid with their lives so I guess we will have to as well. Of course, it will always supposedly be for the good of the people.

But which people? $$$$$$$, that is their goal. Who has made the most $$$ out of all this war mongering? Who agrees with this war? Only those who stand to make those $$$. And they call themselves "christians"? Not a bit of wonder that it has a bad name and folks turn to what they think is a better way. God's enemy certainly has a brilliant way of deception and then blaming God for it and especially against the followers of the real Jesus where this nasty enemy has his infiltrators implanted. If only I was able to get the message across to warn folks, but then I did try--and I think I failed. My heartfelt apologies.

Darlene K (356)
Friday October 3, 2008, 2:26 pm
Robert.., Lindsey has a profile that you can message her and, if you feel you were sooooo close to helping her..., please don't let your work with her, end here..., if that is what you choose, that is your choice. You may judge the materialistic world, but you should NOT judge another human-being. You aren't accountable for spreading the Bible. You are accountable for your own JOY, and the JOY you bring to others. In my opinion, not much Joy is resonating with me in your comments... I respect your Christian beliefs, but YOU chose your own actions and words in this post, and you are witnessing the results. All roads lead to the same Source. It is just that some roads are shorter or longer than others. No wrong way or right way, just as long as we are all going the same way. I feel my crossing your path has helped me greatly with my patience, compassion and tolerance. Thank you for that...Much Love...Namaste

Elgin.., come on now..., I sense that passion you have for Lightworkers, you closet Lightworker lover....LOLOLOLOL. Yeah, bring on the Darkworkers and Satanists. Gregory will appreciate that, Elgin. Mayan..remember..heh, heh.Much Love to you too...Namaste, Dar
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