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Sea Shepherd - Seal Defenders Attacked!

Animals  (tags: sea, shepherd, crew, assault, seal, seals, slaughter, hunt, Canada )

- 4054 days ago -
The Farley Mowat Has Been Illegally Stormed and the Crew Assaulted! The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has been cut off from communication with the crew and has no information on where the vessel will be taken. Sea Shepherd has no information on the co


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Hans L (958)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:48 am
Shame on Canada!

Lorie Grefski (33)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 9:46 am
I just read about this on their website... unbelievable!! I hope they're okay!!

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 12:53 pm

Cynthia Minde (590)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 1:05 pm
Remember last year where they beat the crew and through some of them into jail. It was terrible I hope they are OK these guys are really insane!!!

John Bessa (305)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 2:34 pm
They are going to kill seal pups, and if you get in their way, they will want to kill you.

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 2:35 pm
Shocking Abuses
Sealers surge northward, seeking out and killing seals as theygo. The HSUS and HSI document potential violations as callsresound for a European ban on the trade in seal products. Read more:

John Bessa (305)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 2:58 pm
Silver lining, I got this from the sea shep site:

"Considering that the mission of the Farley Mowat was to document evidence of cruelty by sealers to support a European initiative to ban seal products, I can predict that the Europeans will not be very pleased with this move and most likely this move by Loyola Hearn will guarantee that this bill is passed."

"In other words the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has just handed us the victory that we were looking for.”

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 3:05 pm
Good for them.

veronique P (2)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 3:41 pm
This just proves that the Canadian government is trying to hide the cruelty and truth from the rest of the world, and yes Canadians as well. Lucky there are many Canadians who don't just follow the pack and believe what they are told. We will fight until the slaughter is stopped. And before anyone says anything such as "it's just because seals are cute, you don't say anything about the poor cows when you eat a steak"I AM A VEGAN!

Brenda P (146)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 3:41 pm
i hope they sink to.anyone that clubs a defenceless seal,so helpless and so innocent and such a painful death,well all these people who do this should sink and all drown.i have no feelings at all for people like this.none.

. (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:12 pm
"This is an act of war,” said Captain Paul Watson. “The Canadian government has just sent an armed boarding party onto a Dutch registered yacht in international waters and has seized the ship. Considering that the mission of the Farley Mowat was to document evidence of cruelty by sealers to support a European initiative to ban seal products, I can predict that the Europeans will not be very pleased with this move and most likely this move by Loyola Hearn will guarantee that this bill is passed. In other words the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has just handed us the victory that we were looking for.”

Thank you Captain Watson and to all those on your ships! I pray for the safety of everyone aboard The Farley Mowat. The injustice done these innocent seals needs to be stopped. If I were to see an innocent dog, cat or other animal being brutaly bludgeoned to death, I would not hesitate to trespass in order to save it's life. I only regret that I am not able to be with Captain Watson and the Sea Shepherd in person to aid in their noble cause.
Noted with thanks, Alf and to you Daphne for the forward.

Marisa Sebastian (130)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:13 pm
The Canadian government shows, yet again, how uncivilised they still are. They wouldn't do what they're doing if they weren't afraid their cruel, cruel, inhumane ways were going to be watched by the people that matter. When you're cruel enough to kill a baby, regardless of the species, you're cruel enough to kill humans too. KILLING BABIES IS IMMORAL AND DISGUSTING BEYOND BELIEF. NO ARGUMENT.

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:18 pm

Elisa M (93)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:19 pm

Canada, these bullies, clearly had no legal right to restrict the free passage of the vessel through international waters. But why did they???? One word folks. GREED. The seal hunt is big, big business, and they aren't going to let ANYONE stand in their way. Nor to they want the public to know that these seals are savagely beaten. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HUMANE HUNTING!!!

Thank you Alf for posting.
TY D for forwarding


Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:27 pm
If it happened in the USA the Fairy Mowet would be at the bottom of the sea...crew and all. In Canada you get a dozen chances.

Elisa M (93)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:29 pm

It's the weekend. NO ONE is working at care2

Mara G (411)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:32 pm
Thanks Alf..I hope that "this" happens and the crew is safe. It would be justice served!!

“This is an act of war,” said Captain Paul Watson. “The Canadian government has just sent an armed boarding party onto a Dutch registered yacht in international waters and has seized the ship. Considering that the mission of the Farley Mowat was to document evidence of cruelty by sealers to support a European initiative to ban seal products, I can predict that the Europeans will not be very pleased with this move and most likely this move by Loyola Hearn will guarantee that this bill is passed. In other words the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has just handed us the victory that we were looking for.”

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:33 pm

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:34 pm
This has all to do with money !
It's unbelievable that sealers still can continue this cruelty !
By now the whole world should know what drives them to these acts of greed, murder, and cruel acts.

veronique P (2)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:35 pm
Prime Minister Harper has made his stance on the subject clear, he will not put an end to the seal hunt. That is the head of our country, so unless all Canadians stand united on the seal massacre, it will not end.

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:39 pm
they dont only give outrageous excuses that its their only way to earn their living....they try to defend it also !!!! they club defendless seals & they go home & sleep ok ....these are worms -not humans !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:41 pm

What mentality of people beat baby seals with clubs in order to make a living? There must be something more dignified. If not in that area, MOVE!

Phyllis P (232)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:46 pm
noted...and sorry about the comments that offend. all of that is not necessary...I have sent flags...

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:46 pm
uneducated mentality my dear Carole....

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:48 pm
........they have 'guts' to club the voiceless BUT NO GUTS TO MOVE !!!!!!!!!!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:52 pm

The practice is barbaric . . . no matter WHERE it is happening!

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:54 pm
Help the people who can't help themselves....Newfie Too have this in your profile....what about the voiceless???!!!!!! at least humans can talk..attack & rip your skin off....think well before replying...

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:54 pm
Well it's happening in the USA.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 4:57 pm
I would defend your children too even though you would like to see mine die just because I live in Newfoundland.

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:00 pm
children for me are ALL the voiceless that humans THINK have the right to kill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!so keep your hero insticts ..i dont need them...and dont put words in mouth that i never said ...!!

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:03 pm
with provocatine ignorants i can only be rude....

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:05 pm

Hey, I'm not going to say anything -- in general -- about Newfounders. I worked with them and they are some of the most real, honest, sincere people I've ever had the pleasure to speak with.

I am only questioning this one particular practice, which I find to be cruel and disgusting. I even did some research on the web and found sites that consider this to be "sport." (I'll consider it "sporting" when both sides are equally armed, but even then -- it will STILL be barbaric.)

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:06 pm
Daphne, it's not worth your time. Focus on issues. Some people are too ignorant to understand. Keep it cool.

. (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:06 pm
they need to be procecuted

Jim Fitch (369)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:12 pm
I believe this amounts to Piracy on the part of Canada. And I thought that Japan was bad!!!

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:14 pm

Helen Forsythe (91)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:19 pm
Ban EU Seal Trade

The European Commission is considering a seal-product trade ban that would save millions of seals from a horrible fate. Help convince the EU to end the cruel seal product trade. Please add your name to the petition to show your support for the seals.

! You Can Sign, No Matter Where You Live !

International opinion matters on the proposal to ban seal products, so anyone living anywhere can sign the petition.

Tell the world you want an end to seal product trade -

YOU can make a difference.


Last chance to push for EU ban on seal products.

The EU is on the brink of making a decision on whether to ban the trade in seal products. If Europe bans the trade in seal products it will send a strong message to Canada and other seal hunting nations that Europeans want nothing to do with this cruel trade.

Please write to your representative on the European Commission and ask them to ban the trade in seal products in the EU.

Send automated message here -


veronique P (2)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:25 pm
And Newfie too, seal products have been banned from the US since the 70's because the Americans consider it barbaric.

. (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:30 pm
Thank you Helen for the info and links.

. (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:34 pm
New Life Micheal O. so you both want to gang up on Daphne Hua? and one of you can't even speel right ggod job dua!!! We love animals but you 2 are full of carp!!!! up to your eyes if I could I would be there on top of you in a heart beat!! for I fear you not believe you me. If Greeks know about ass's then you should for your a real good one!!!!. Just because we want to save these seals how would you like for me to wack you one time hua? The Sea Sheapard were not breaking the rules they can be where they want you all do not own the ocean!!! and when you think you do let me know, for they or any ship can be there they are not stupid like dua you. Enough of you and your buddy and the other one up there that put her 2 cents in about eating steaks I don't for I'M a vegaterian so bite me!!! know what your talking about before you put your stupid 2 cents in. Thank you Alf noted

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 5:36 pm
Noted! Michael O & Newfy., next time leave the sh*%ty attitude at the door why don't ya. I don't believe Loyala Hearn gives a dam about the sealers.. All about the green really. I'm also ashamed to say that I've been aboard one of the Coast Guard Ships.

anita m (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:05 pm
How can such barbaric cruelty be legal?

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:17 pm
where is the petition???

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:19 pm

anita m (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:20 pm
Newfie too, you are asking us if we are afraid and yet you demonstrate behavior which is based on fear. You are verbally aggressive and threatening. It looks like YOU are the one who is afraid....and so you should, because the seal cull is coming to an end. I suggest you stop reproducing and go back to school. If you cannot feed your kids with clean (and not bloody money!) don't have any.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:34 pm

I'm not sure how much many of you know of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, etc. the Maritime provinces, are surrounded by water and have profoundly severe winters (sometimes so harsh that the ocean is frozen and even mail cannot get through for weeks).

Most of the people I got to know (from being a collections manager), specializing in Canadian accounts) from those provinces actually epitomized the "idealistic" America of the 50's. The women were usually alone during the months of the year when their husbands (the breadwinners) were "in the bush" or out to sea, when they made the bulk of their yearly income.

BUT, when they said they'd pay as soon as their husband came home . . . by God, THEY did! (They were the few accounts I could trust and I actually enjoyed getting to know them, and hearing their personal stories -- nothing like collecting on accounts from America or even Western Canada.)

THAT SAID, HOWEVER, the practice of beating baby seals on the head for their fur (and to limit consumption of fish) is NOT A GOOD THING FROM THE PAST, and certainly, not a tradition to carry forward.

Newfie and Michael, I can understand your protective "survival instincts," but you seem too intelligent not to see how offensive this must be to people not in your situation and grossly opportunistic in relation to the taking of lives of innocent animals.

Name-calling will not solve anything.

K U Harder (8)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:35 pm
People, people, don't feed the trolls.

DAPHNE D (286)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:37 pm
FEED THEM???? THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO FEED THEIR FAMILY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL .....LOL..............

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:47 pm

I hear you, Micheal. My first priority is to humans.

BUT, if humans want to assume the mantle of "superiority," over other creatures, that comes with the responsibility of being humane. I find little comfort in knowing that baby seals are shot vs. clubbed. What I question is the necessity to kill them at all.

In all honesty, I do not see the need for any human to wear fur since the advent of the loom (and that's been several hundred years). Further, I question a group of honorable, otherwise noble people, who cannot collectively pool their intelligence to come up with a more dignified way to survive.

Extending hand.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:54 pm
Just Carole, there is no problem with anyone opposing killing animals for fur. Its all the hatred that gets directed at Newfoundland and Canada in general. The gall of people to wish death on sealers after four men died , is appalling. The hatred on this site alone is actually freaking me out a little. Thats honest. I hope that you can see through my absurd ramblings in other posts and realize that its this hatred and craziness that I am against. Protest the seal hunt all you want, by all means. But don't wish death on hard working men who are just trying to make a living, they do more than kill seals. They have families.

Helen Forsythe (91)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:56 pm










anita m (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:57 pm
We might be crazy but you are definitely cruel.


Joycey B (750)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:57 pm
I back Daphne here 100%. I hope the ban is a done thing. I have been hoping for this day for a long time. Stopping the sea shepherd from filming the slaughter only shows me they want to hide their barbaric ways of slaughtering innocent baby seals. And I will keep fighting hard until this murdering ends.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 6:59 pm


I agree with those sentiments. I am a human for peace. I will never condone death wishes on any living creature, and it is uncalled for -- no matter what side.

I can also understand (to an extent) your reactions.

I hope that other "civilized" Care2 members will afford as much courtesy to their "sealer enemies" and at least give them the dignity of being more than one-dimensional. It's not fair to paint a group of people with a wide one-colored brush.

I find that offensive, no matter what side of the fence anyone is on.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 7:01 pm
Carole, you made my day. Thanks for that reasonable response. Have a great night. All the best.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 7:05 pm
Loyola Hearn Proves to be a Dunce on Strategy
"The crew of the Farley Mowat have already released video images of a seal being skinned alive and other cruelties that have demonstrated that the slaughter is far from humane. If the Canadian government forcefully boards a Dutch registered ship in international waters that will not be looked on very kindly in Europe. If they actually arrest two Europeans for the “crime” of documenting a seal being skinned alive, that will not play very well in Amsterdam, Stockholm or London or Paris."
"If Captain Alex Cornelissen or 1st Officer Peter Hammarstedt are arrested and brought to jail in Canada for documenting the seal slaughter, they will be seen as political prisoners in Europe. There will be protests before Canadian embassies and Consulates. European Parliamentarians will receive petitions and letters and this will serve to elevate this issue even further in the minds of all Europeans."


Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 7:18 pm
I find it amusing that so many of you have put all Nflders in one bucket. Actually I'm more in favor of the whole seal being used and feel that any meat wasted is a waste. The seal hunt is no worst and actually better than most hunts. Anti groups just push what they can, they never tell a lie unless the truth don't fit. They are happy to get your money.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 7:20 pm

Thank you, Newfie.

I'll remind you that I said this: "t's not fair to paint a group of people with a wide one-colored brush."

So? (You're a Newfie of a different color.) Americans are "rainbow people" too.

Blue Bunting (855)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 7:23 pm
My family and I ... we lived in British Columbia and we know that discrimination is ... we were labelled "yankees" by the Canadians who were our co-workers, co-students and co-residents.

I was surprised at the level of discrimination in CNADA>

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 7:38 pm
Carole it is refreshing to see someone who actually knows something about Nflders, who they are and what they stand for. I have no problem with anyone protesting the seal hunt and I wouldn't stand in anyone's way that wants to do so. WHat I won't stand for is anyone who runs their mouth off like so many do on this site and probably couldn't find Nfld on a map. They take cheap shots at not only the sealers but their families and stoop so low as to applaud the death of the four that drowned and wish more to happen. That is low. That gives me the right to stand up and have my say. AND like I said if you don't like the hunt and you want to talk crap then come here and do it. We're waiting...but looking at the loose assortment of degenerates I can see they have no stomach to come here and shoot off...easier to do it at home.

Like I say clean up your own countries and then look outside your borders. USA kills seals.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 7:49 pm

My background is Native American. One of the things I admire about my ancestors is that, when they killed an animal, they revered it. No part was left to waste, because to do so, would be a dishonor. Hides were used for warmth, meat was preserved and shared, even bones were used as implements.)

The change came with the arrival of Europeans, who slaughtered herds (almost to the point of extinction), took what would be profitable, and wasted the remains -- which is a disrespect to life.

I understand.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:02 pm
I'm Metis and my wife is Inuit. But that means beans to most people who think their way is the only way and everyone must conform.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:04 pm

And, what is your point?

I respected your respect of the animal lives you take.

Please do not find conflict where peace is welcomed.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:12 pm meant it means beans to non-native people. They don't care about our past...they have their modern day view where all should do as they say.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:15 pm

Yeah, much truth there.

Many do not realize that some still live "the way."

Just understand. (After all, you have chosen your path . . . and are content in your soul.)

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:18 pm

Evil thoughts to others are only reflective, self-destruction.

Do not participate. You are the guardian of your own soul.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:20 pm
pls check Newfie Too's profile and see for how long that account wasn't active please.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:22 pm

And that means what?

(now pass the joint!)


Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:27 pm
It's the anger that comes out when I see these people spit in the faces of the people who live around me. They don't know who we are and what we do. They care not if you are native and that actually makes you lower on their hate list. They are no friend of anyone including their own that they would cannibalize to bully or swallow whole.

They wear invisible symbols and the biggest one is KKK. They say not but deep down...

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:36 pm
So what if I was absent for a while. Two main reasons were work and family health problems which are still ongoing. When i was here I was speaking out against animal abuse and child and woman abuse. I'll soon have to disappear again to take care of my daughter when she has her operation. Her life means more to me than the life of any animal.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:41 pm

Your anger and continued wrath are unjustified.

No one is challenging you.

Your singular situation, HOWEVER, does not justify the killing of thousands of baby seals for fur (that is not needed any more for warmth) nor to justify the fact that they are eating fish needed for human fishermen to sustain their families.

This question could go on forever, and forever be justified by people saying it's necessary to sustain their families.

But, when do we face the fact that this is no longer acceptable? When do we research alternate methods of survival? When do we respect the sanctity of ALL life (not just humans)?

My patience with these excuses is extremely limited.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:45 pm
exactly for a year absence LOL
it is not just you. account opens in April (seal slaughter season :P) and left alone till next years seal slaughter season, and left alone till next season.

Sorry I don't believe you. Care2 is a good community and if you really cared about the world you'd have some butterfiles or something. so actually you only care about seal slaughter. So sad.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 8:50 pm

Having had NO real (other than a small percentage of indigenous people) rationalization for the CONTINUING slaughter of baby seals, which means that SEASONS BETWEEN NEVER EVEN ENTERTAIN OTHER LIFE-SUSTAINING SOURCES OF INCOME . . .


Mara G (411)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 9:43 pm
HA HA HA HA!! This is like a comedy act. ENCORE! ENCORE!


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 9:44 pm

And we would all choose YOU as the judge?

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 10:08 pm
I can't killing seals. I don't and never did kill one. I would rather shoot an animal with a camera. however, I am a meat eater and not stupid enough to think meat grows in little styro packages.

It doesn't matter if the seals are 2 days, 20 days, 200 days or 2000 days old. The fight is on to stop the seal hunt entirely. It doesn't matter what method is used to kill them. It doesn't matter if it's a native hunt. The legal seal hunt is being pressed to be stopped across the board.

It matters not who is effected. It matters not that the seals are reaching a critical population explosion which will be followed by starvation once many species are destroyed by them. I'm not talking about commercial shellfish and fish alone. I'm talking anything they can eat and digest.

These seals will be crawling across the land looking for food. They'll be doing it right here where I live. I will have the privilege of looking at an animal starve to death.

My kids won't go hungry and neither will anyone else's here, not like they once did. The funny thing is that it was Europe's greed that started this and it may well be Europe's ignorance that will lead to a bigger mass destruction of a species. The sealers may move on but be assured they won't come back to clean up the mess that looms so close.

People listen to ARA's and think these people have all the answers. They never lived here, they never lived off the land, they never did anything but consume. Whether, they eat meat or not their food is provided to them through the hard work, sweat and sometimes blood of hard working people. Without these providers how many would survive to live on their own. A little backyard garden won't fill your bellies for long.

It's so safe to sit at home and put down people without even knowing who they are and where they live. It's so easy to gang up and belittle people because someone is egging you on to do it.

I find it amazing that people can look at a picture and decide right there and then that they have the right to destroy someone else's life.

If a major world catastrophe happened tomorrow the only people who will survive are the savages who know how to feed themselves.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 10:22 pm

Newfie, thank you so much for going beyond the emotions and giving us all a new view.

I feel your heart -- and you are not a beast.

I ask my friends to "really" read this.

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 10:53 pm
Anyone that truly gets to know me will tell you I'm not a The whole problem is that so many people are listening to those who say the people of Nfld are, inbred, apes, uneducated, barbarians, everyone knows the names. So many people are listening to those names and taking it at face value.

Nflders are no different than anyone else, we're English, Irish with a splash of Scot and French. We have the same dreams, the same laws, the same principles. We are closer socially because throughout our history the people who came and stayed here knew they had to rely on family and friends to survive.

Thousands of tourists come here each year to look for our secret of happiness. It's not money and possessions that make us happy but being surrounded by friends and family. A sad Nflder is a lonely Nflder.

It wasn't the greed of Nflders that started the seal hunt, it was the greed of Europeans. It wasn't the greed of Nflders that destroyed the fishery, it was the greed of many nations. It wasn't the greed of Nflders that destroyed our forests, it was the greed of nations. It wasn't the greed of Nflders that destroyed so much here, it has always been the greed of those who came here and took what they wanted or were allowed to do it by governments in England or Upper Canada.

The common Nflder lived in small communities and fished, hunted and raise animals and vegetables to feed him and his family. They didn't build large ships that dragged the sea bottom. They didn't invite nations to come and take what they wanted so industries in Ontario could get good trade agreements.

Century after decade after year Nflders get something taken away from them and are told to sit back and shut up. How long should we take it before we fight back?

Past Member (0)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 11:08 pm
I don't buy it: These seals will be crawling across the land looking for food, because of EU's seal products ban in the future seals will be over populated and starve to death,

so it is best to slaughter them then. Just to show mercy.

btw to give a pause to commercial fishing and recover the fish popullation is never a issue here.


Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 11:12 pm
Will someone screen shot this article for future reference..
Seems regular memebrs have learned from past multiple abusers that it is okay to create multiple hamdle and profiles to rant and rage against other members. Seems that this goes on every weeksnd while Support is out doing their own thing. We lose good people here because people lose their tempers with those that can't let others speak freely without personal attacks. Besides, while they get away with posting under multiple profiles, they just make it worse for the good people here that work so hard for the voiceless. Besides, what goes around comes around.

Just tune them out friends. It's not worth your time, energy or trouble.

Karen M (176)
Saturday April 12, 2008, 11:46 pm
This IS an act of war. This does prove even more than pictures or video that this sealing is inhumane, Canadian authorities don't care, and that they are only after material gain. Go Sea Shepherd!

Ariel SunDolphin (276)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 12:10 am
Nearly all people in the Americas (and the world, for that matter) have used animals to survive at some point in their ancestral hx. and though I do not think it excuses to senselessly abuse animals or people, esp. when other ways are not being adequately sought for them (or with them), I DO feel sad for the loss of the Sealer's lives too, though I do not unfairly blame the conservationists for this (it was not their blunder that caused it)& I don't think it should be taken out on them either. Another thing is that most of the so called 'white' people in the Maritime Provinces are there because their lands in what is now mostly called 'U.K.' were taken over by 'England' (Great Britain), at that time and they were not treated right either & they were sent off on ships to other lands (mostly in the Americas) to survive or die..(Scottish Clearances, Irish Potato Famine etc)So reverse discrimination, blaming all Euros. aka 'white' people & painting them with the same brush' is not the solution either. Some people of all races have had to endure oppression & the attempted destruction of their own cultures &/or been forced to move. (ex.: Gaelic was even outlawed in their own lands till they could be overtaken better) And I don't know if telling more groups of people now to starve or just move again is the solution anyway. Tribes of people regardless of their race/culture, become a part of the land & do not like being shuffled about like a bird without a nest because of anybody's greed or uncaring & yes, we have to care about these people too, or how can we say we care about seals..We need to encourage Canada Gov. to find suitable alternatives for the their people involved in the Seal Hunts, rather than funding/subsidizing the slaughters, if we hope to help both the People & the Seals. (And I think it is hard to truly help one without the other) Also there are separate quotas even for the indigenous aboriginal seal hunts which use the whole seal & the other mass slaughters that are just for the furs and this obscures some of the incorrect mindset that continues the futile subsidizing of the hunts, rather than helping all the people trapped in that catch 22 survival game, from not having adequate choices for other training being subsidized instead of funding continued slaughters too. If my son was killed while doing something he or i, did not believe in, I would grieve for him no less (perhaps more because he was unable to live long enough to overcome it)and so I do not think it helps for anybody to act like they are happy another person's child died in the seal hunts. Adding to their desperation and grief does not help. Desperate people and innocent animals, don't usually mix well already. The Seal hunt has been inhumane & it does waste BOTH human & animal lives! It is a tragedy for all concerned on all sides. Arresting the crew of a conservationist ship documenting the inhumanity of the seal slaughters only adds to the tragedy and only attempts to shift the focus of the blame and waste more of Canadians tax dollars defending seal slaughter unjustly, instead of funding to really HELPING these people to a less desperate way to make a living right where they are. That when Newfie Too calmed down a bit also & said he understood people that were against furring for anybody, but not people happy for when even 'sealers' were killed & how he did not want to see animals starving either but did not understand those who did not care if his people starved etc..makes allot more sense why he is so upset & it shows that perhaps some of these people sealing could be open to even be funded for becoming conservationists too even, or wild-life photographers & artists & other productive sustainable positive trades that both they and the world could appreciate & benefit from...that their parents & children could be proud of again..rather than funding for them to be looked down on with disgust used for the abusers by proxy, as they stand there bashing in the heads of innocent seals and skinning them alive for the cameras! And whether it is seen by all or done only when the heavens can see makes no difference to their souls. I do care that somebody's daughter is sick, that their child has died or that their individual or group suffering matters even, though I am against the seal hunts. Also will state here that I still do NOT think unjustly scapegoating the conservationist crew by falsely arresting them, will solve a darn thing either and that they should be immediately released. .I will sign all petitions against the inhumane seal slaughters with the plea for Canada Gov. to give these people back their dignity by funding real alternatives for them, instead of the inhumane seal slaugheters.

I would also like to thank Carole for trying to bring a little more perspective into this debate so far while many tempers were riled up..
I care about all of you, & I thank you for also hearing my own humble opinions & if you think any of them are helpful you are welcome to share them, but if not then you need not wear them either.
I ask the Great Spirit to continue to put a healing hand on this whole situation.
Thank you & in whatever way each of you may pray for good, Blessings on All.

Ruth S (78)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 12:24 am

DAPHNE D (286)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 12:32 am
all killers has an excuse .......drama was born in Greece & i can tell you this :these 2 sealers that came to CARE2 TO PUT FIRE AMONG REAL ACTIVISTS & animal lovers are lousy 'actors'....wanna live?? clean the streets !!!!!! feed your kids with no BLOODY MONEY !!!!!!!!
as a vegan that i respect all forms of life i can only feel ASHAMED TO BE A 'HUMAN'.

Malachi S (6)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 2:27 am
I'm confused. The Sea Shepard boards a whaling vessel in International waters and they're not pirates and they're in the right. Now the tables are turned and they are boarded in International waters and they're STILL in the right. What goes around, comes around.
Don't get me wrong, I'm against the killing of anything for a profit or just for the sake of killing.

Ariel SunDolphin (276)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 2:42 am
I agree, killers of children and seals, can make allot of excuses, and I just want to make clear that though I am against the funding of seal killings, instead of the funding of decent jobs, does not mean that I approve of the slaughters either. Also that though I think that
'Newfie Too's reasons for being upset were more understandable once he calmed down by talking with Carole, I still do not condone the contents of what remarks he made in some of his other comments about the Captain & Sage & a few others either and it is not nice to threaten to say a non-killer's name while bashing in a seal's head, even if you do not really mean that
I believe that Sage, like the Captain are both Canadian too. So please Canada Government, Free The Conservationist Crew & Fund Better Jobs, Instead of Seal Slaughters so as to Save Humans & Seals!

Ariel SunDolphin (276)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 2:58 am
Sorry, I was not going to comment again, but Malaci's question did not show up till after I had done mine, so I will go ahead & respond to that one too as respectful as possible..
The reason it is different Malaci, is because the illegal Japanese Cetacean Slaughters were murdering highly sentient Beings (including endangered Whales) in a Declared Sanctuary. The Dutch Ship was in International Waters & murdering NO-ONE. HUGE Difference.
And so obviously I will try not to lower myself enough, so as not to even fuller venture to address right now, what would really be happening if 'what comes around, goes around' was truly done in this case, because we all now that would just be more bloodshed..and so the tables have not turned, more innocent people are simply paying for the sins of killers is all.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 3:56 am
I would like to point out the fallacies in all of the arguments I have seen, but that would take way too long. I believe in helping people.
Especially those who have been disgraced for too many years.
For those who are against the seal hunt, would like to challenge you to live a day in the life of a rural native.
People say to "get a real job", but do any of you know what its like to live on a reserve (let alone a rural one)?

I question the likeliness that anyone in this discussion knows a single Native American.

I would also like to state that I am disappointed in Newfie Too
for their childish display of name calling and rude remarks.
You are giving Canada a bad rep.

Anne T (286)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 4:34 am
How can anyone her justify this merciless, cruel and barbaric hunt?? I have seen the videos of the killlings. Men laughing whilst they kill babies, mothers watching whilst their young are skinned alive in front of their eyes, and clubbled or shot if they try to defend them!!!!
Shame, Shame on Canada and anyone who defends this attrocity. Thankyou Daphne and everyone who is speaking out and acting against this evil hunt!!! There can be NO justification for it whatsoever!!!

Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 4:50 am
Seals are NOT skinned alive. Killing a baby, is a serious offense and officials are quick to punish this behavior.
Why are you shaming me. I am standing up for something I strongly believe in. Native Rights.
Plus, If the seal hunt stopped, there would be an overpopulation crisis. The only natural predator to keep the population healthy are hunters.

The same thing happens an some National, and Provincial Parks. The predators of deer have been long removed and there becomes a crisis of overpopulation. Native people are brought in to hunt and bring the population to a healthy level.

Anne T (286)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 5:14 am
In 2001, 5 eminent veterinarians (2 British, 2 American, and 1 Canadian) monitored the seal hunt in the Gulf of the St Lawrence. What they found is disturbing.

They concluded the hunt caused "considerable and unacceptable suffering". Over 40% of the seals that were caught were conscious and fully aware, when they were skinned alive.

That same year postmortem examinations revealed 25% of seals showed minimal or moderate signs of injury when the skinning occurred. This is proof that the seals were still alive and well.

In 2001 video evidence indicated that in nearly 80% of instances, sealers did not examine the body to check if the seal was dead or unconscious prior to skinning the body. This same evidence indicated that in 40% of cases the hunter left an animal clubbed and suffering for extended periods of time before returning to club it a second time or to skin it alive.


Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 5:17 am
What is your source Anne T.?

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 5:37 am
Hunters are mentally disturbed people, with a low self-esteem and morally undeveloped. As an intelligent understanding and sensitive person I am, any kind of torture and destruction is not acceptable for me. But unfortunately it looks like that those who should control the evil; undeveloped and ignorant people are not even better. Otherwise they would care. - Many people, most unfortunately, still believe human beings to be so superior to animals and that the animals should not enjoy the same status, either during physical life or after passing on. People cannot call themselves Christians and use the name of God, and then, they neglect, torture, mistreat, kill the animals! Animals are the Gods creation!!! - However, the true "image" of God is pure Spirit, the very same pure Spirit of which everything and everyone, including ALL ANIMALS are equal aspects, and all are therefore equal aspects of "The Source", "The First Cause", "God". How can these people kill animals and then to say they love their children? Nonsense!

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 5:46 am
For those of you that care to read...I am a Nflder...For those of you who can understand...that doesn't make you a killer of seals. For those of you that should know put both in the same bucket and thanked God that some of us were dead and wished that more of us died.

I get angry when people want me and my family dead. I said angry things but it appeared that was the appropriate way to talk in these comments. If I had simply put in a comment that said I'm a Nflder...I would still have been attacked and called down to the dirt.

Don't worry about the Native Rights because once the claws are set in to take away the seal hunt it will include the Native seal hunt as well. Can a Canadian native person sent a seal product into the USA? Would they be able to send a seal product into The EU if they go ahead with a ban?

The problem with seal hunts around the world is that greedy white Europeans wanted them for whatever reasons. Same as they wanted everything else and still want everything. The people living in USA and Canada are still carrying those greedy ideas after many generations. They look at Native people as dirty little, tax evasive, cigarette selling, gambling house , spouse and child abusing alcoholics who are better off stacked in some corner where they can be watched and controlled.

Before I stated that I was absent from here for so long because of two main reasons. Work and family health. I'm sorry if you think I am lying and for the second reason I wish I was. Last year in May I went to work at a place had had no internet service and I worked 5 weeks straight and 1 week off. When I was home I wasn't worried too much about the internet. In the fall of last year I finished that work and at a good time because my wife who was working at the time was having increasing problems with her heart. She had been in an accident back in 1990's and the nerve damage had caused stress on her since then which led to heart problems. At that time it was back and forth to hospitals. A couple of months ago my daughter who is 18 had a severe nose bleed and had to go to ER, she was given a CT scan which showed she had a cyst on her brain. Now it's back and forth to hospitals again. The cyst is larger than an egg and within a month or so she will have the top of her head removed so they can take it out.

That is why I wasn't around and many other people ask why I haven't been around other things as well. This past couple of weeks I have gotten some strength back mentally to focus on a few other things, more as a distraction than anything. I care not if anyone believes me and I know that you all wish that my wife and daughter will die because that will send a couple more filthy Newfies to your hell.

Do I believe that last sentence I deep inside me I want to believe people, especially women, would not wish death on anyone. Do I believe some will say it though...yes...because I know there are very hateful people out there.

Hans L (958)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 5:47 am
THANK GOD EUROPE WILL END THIS INSANE SLAUGHTER! If the buying stops the killing will stop to! End the buying will stop that is for sure!

Holland has been the first nation to ban seal fur and i am sure EUROPE will follow complete! Next year there will be no more market for seal skins!

What i like most is that they have captured European innocent citizens unlike Australia we take care of innocent victims! Just wait and see that
Canada will hear from the EU that they dont accept this!
How can you invest millions to travel to Europe in order to fight the ban of fur...and than act like can a government be that stupid?

Alf I (246)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 6:00 am
I have ALWAYS been for 'natives rights' but sadly this massacre is no longer anything to do with native customs. The Innuits, like the N.A.'s were respectful of life. As someone pointed out this is more of a European style 'hunt'. I use the word hunt loosely as there is no chance for a young seal to get away. This seal slaughter is pure 'business' and it is pure blood money. Some people on here are not doing their cause any favours and have just shown how mercenary they are. Stop using ancient long dead traditions to justify a slave job to the European 'masters'. It justifies nothing and bears no relation to the old ways. All it does is dirty them!

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 6:07 am
So ALpha W. you are saying Native people are mentally disturbed people, with a low self-esteem and morally undeveloped because they hunt? Oh, and that you are an intelligent understanding and sensitive person. Hmmmm. And you use God and Christianity to support your belief in all this?

In relation to the seal hunt Bishops use to bless the sealing boats before they departed. A Pope visiting Nfld once did also. There was a Pope who also stated that seals were fish. SO I guess God must have endorsed the seal hunt a few times.

My biggest concern is bring in religion to this. Native people have died in multitudes because of your religious views...they are the same views as the ignorant Europeans who came here and decided that the Natives had to conform or die. Your words are written in that post and any Native person can look at them and see exactly what kind of person you are.

Louise L (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 6:10 am
So sorry for your troubles Newfie Too...hope all the medical procedures go well for your family. As to all the vitriolic hate that I've read in this thread, all I can say is believing in a cause is a good thing, wishing people dead is not. When your passions out-weigh decency, time to rethink! I am against the seal hunt here in Canada but would never wish that kind of grief on any parent...can't imagine losing a child...

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 6:16 am
There are native people conducting a commercial hunt, the same commercial hunt you want banned. European intrusion has forced native people to try and adapt to survive. The right to travel and live off the land was taken away. In it's place some blankets, flour and alcohol were given to us along with a wooden shack in a convenient place where we couldn't hunt or fish.

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 6:22 am
Thank you Louise. We all have a cause we believe in and there are always opposing views. When I came here last year I saw the same hatred as I saw here this time. I can't grasp the concept that killing and praising death upon those who have opposing views is acceptable. i bet that anyone just seeing my ID name drives them into a frenzy.

Louise L (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 6:40 am
Your name shouldn't drive anyone crazy Newfie Too...if we could clear all the ugly comments away, they just might remember that it was the Newfoundlanders that opened their hearts and homes to all the stranded passengers after 911. They were wonderful, caring people at that time!

Alf I (246)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 6:42 am
Newfie, if the native people 'adapt' by using the same disgusting rape of the earths animals and resources they are lowering themselves to the depths they themselves despise so much. Is it a case of 'If you can't beat them, join them?'

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 6:58 am
Yes indeed Louise and year after year these same people and their families come back to visit the sealers that took them in when their own country wouldn't. all need a history and social study lesson into native life. Now you are trying to justify taking away Native hunting rights by applying the European customs they were forced into accepting. In the end you want all hunting banned for EVERYONE.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 7:09 am
OK, If you're not going to argue properly against my Native argument, then I am going to bring this point
If the seal hunt were to stop, the seals would eat and reproduce until the food ran out. They would die by starving to death.

I am not using 'ancient long dead traditions' to justify the seal hunt. The Inuit hunt to survive.
If you are going to forever stop the hunt, then give a better solution.
Rather than displaying how much you dislike it, give options for food, income etc. instead.

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 7:18 am
Mr. Watson suggested that seals could be combed to gather loose hair. It went no where because what bank would finance a few days a year business venture on heavy seas where you have to pin down a wild animal.

Eco-tourism is another. It already exists here but because of climate different ventures are limited to seasons.

Paying sealers not to hunt. Maybe some new cloth and some shiny buttons would be ok.

I can go more into detail if anyone wants me too.

My point is that if you don't come and see how can you dictate how people should live and work?

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 7:23 am
A wise man sits and listens to others
A fool sits and listens to himself

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 8:56 am
this is where these pro-sealers hang out and laugh about how stupid and crazy we are on Care2

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 9:07 am


"Hunters are mentally disturbed people, with a low self-esteem and morally undeveloped. As an intelligent understanding and sensitive person I am, any kind of torture and destruction is not acceptable for me."

Those hardly sound like the words of an "understanding and sensitive" person. For your information, my father -- one of the kindest, loving, generous men I've ever known -- was a hunter and fisherman, and went out on his hunting/fishing trips with the fathers of my friends, who were also decent family men.

Although I never liked the "sport" (and I will not consider it fair until the deer and other targetted animals are given guns and trained to use them - LOL), I resent such a harsh, sweeping generalization!

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 9:10 am
Cool...I got a stalker. Same as other message some are stupid and crazy here but I've already met some good people thanks. Oh...they're not sealers or Newfies either.

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 9:12 am

please visit the site and gain insight into their Anti-AR views and thoughts

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 9:35 am
Newfie, don't flatter yourself, you're not worth it. I happen to belong to both boards and find it funny that you and your buddies only come to Care2 once a year to stir the pot while enjoying the solace of the board where AR activists are constantly bashed......

Anne T (286)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 9:42 am
In answer to Dawn:

Ariel SunDolphin (276)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 9:49 am

Alf I (246)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 9:55 am
" all need a history and social study lesson into native life. Now you are trying to justify taking away Native hunting rights by applying the European customs they were forced into accepting. In the end you want all hunting banned for EVERYONE."
You are the one trying to justify a barbaric slaughter by stowing it under the indigenous peoples rights banner! All I'm saying is that they have sold-out to the money greedy white men. Who is still making all the profits from this. Not YOUR people I'll bet but the fat-cats sitting in their offices laughing at the whole circus going on out there. You all plead poverty and in the next breath bemoan the very little you are paid for it!
As for Dawn's argument apart form it being ridiculous and constantly over-used it is totally untrue. Animals will limit their own population according to availability of food. They don't need people to play God.Don't pretend that you care if they starve or not.

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 9:58 am
I've been a member here since last year...let's see you've been a member since ....ahh, gee...what....several hours?

Guess I must find myself stupid and crazy.

Ariel SunDolphin (276)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 10:04 am
An Australian Doctor and Her Partner, are also being "detained"..

Anne T (286)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 10:06 am
Exactly ALF. Nature will take it's course, there is no need for man to interfere!! Well said.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 10:07 am
To Anne T.
I appreciate your reply.
I would like to ask everyone if they have critically thought about the information being used?
We all need to step back and look at these sources and ask whether or not they are withholding and essential information, or how much is actually opinion.
Anne, I found your source to be very subjective and one sided.

Alf I (246)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 10:25 am
LOL Dawn, of course it is one-sided it is an anti-sealhunt site. Any information is going to be one-sided depending on who is doing the writing but understand this. Who are the one's who stand to lose if the seal hunt ends? The sealers of course will lie through their teeth to save their livelihoods. The politicians will lie to keep their jobs too and secure votes from the sealers.
If the seal hunt ended the campaigners could go and concentrate on something else that needs their attention and wouldn't lose anything. They'd just enjoy the holiday.
So I will believe their 'propoganda' before I believe anyone involved in the massacre. I know who has the higher morals.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 10:36 am
oh how arguments get out of hand. I think we should all just face the fact that none of us are budging on our view.
Instead of arguing and running in circles, why don't we come up with a SOLUTION. I've said this too many times already, but, If you don't think sealing should continue, then spend your energy on thinking up a new option of food and income, not only for the Inuit, but for the fishing communities which are whithering away. We all know where each other stands on the issue, now we need to stop fighting and be useful.
Oh, and I do care about animals, I've risked my life saving animals. I also listen to naturalists opinions on seal populations, before anyone else. THEY are the experts and know their stuff objectively.
I used to work at Pinery Provincial Park. There we had a fenced off area where deer could feed. It was beautiful green, full. The forest around it was barren from all the deer. Every year there MUST be a hunt, or else we would have no park at all! Lesson is, that animals don't regulate and 'limit their population', they eat to survive. When there's not enough food, some die. If there's no more food they die as well as the other animals who also rely on those animals and so on.

Margaret P (76)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 10:56 am
Seal birth control, anyone? The politicians actually tried that concept with the squirrels here in CA. Rather than slaughter and/or poison them or leave them to starve to death, they employed birth control methods for the animals. I am sure some of you find this concept laughable but, after watching the barbaric way these sealers hunt, it gets my vote for population control. Proud to be an EX Canadian.......

Alf I (246)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 11:20 am
Far be it from ME or anyone else to offer solutions to people I know little about. You should ask THEM what they want. The only people who should come up with an alternative to this yearly massacre and the months of nothing to do in between is the locals themselves or do they not have the imagination to come up with anything new and innovative other than finding the nearest helpless animals and slaughtering them enmasse for a pitiful cut of the fast falling profits.
As for your point about the deer, if they had more land and were not forced to concentrate in one area (by man) there wouldn't be the problem of them overgrazing there.

Trudi Reijnders (242)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 11:54 am
First of all,thank you Alf for sharing this.Second,I flagged 2 persons because of their comments.Having different opinions and discuss about it,is fine with me.But provoking other people???Let's not waste energy,flag and ignore them and let's keep on fighting for our causes.

. (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 12:08 pm
OOOHHH MY GOD !!! Why does everyone spend their time commenting these people? Don't let them get on your nerves and put yourselfs on their level of thinking."Just tune them out friends. It's not worth your time, energy or trouble." i agree wolf. It is only their intention to get people mad.Don't lower yourselfs and put nasty comments here.Everyone has a right to their own oppinion but stay civil.Ofcourse i don't agree with the Canadian sealhunt,but i do believe Canada is a beautifull country.Not everyone in Canada is bad,like not everyone is bad in Japan,Chjina,Australia,Greece,Holland ect.Every country has it's faults,their own animal cruelty.Holland for example still breeds minks for fur.A lot of Canadians are against the sealhunt.It's the gouverment who atill makes the decisions.EVERY COUNTRY HAS ITS BLOODY SHAME.Canada's sealhunt is the largest slaughter of marine wildlife.But i'm confident the sealhunt will die out,maybe not next year,but hopefully soon.Coutries have to follow the Netherlands,and ban seal products.

Hans L (958)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 12:08 pm
Dear Trudy! I agree and did the same!
I have also flagged many trolls this weekend! But unfortunatley care2 does not do anything to change the rules! Its simple the trolls have no green stars for what have no friends and no actions at all! I would suggest that care2 would start making a difference! I love to see discussions about important questions like the seal hunt! We are fortunate to live in a country that is a world leader when you look at the animal rights!
the party for the animals is playing a huge role in making this world a better place! Lets keep on fighting for our causes!

Past Member (0)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 12:15 pm
Trudy, I agree! Did you happen to see the rude & crude comment left for me by Michael.. Lol. How absurd.

DAPHNE D (286)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 1:50 pm

EU to propose ban on imports of seal products

Reuters, Sunday April 13 2008 By Gerard Wynn
BRDO, Slovenia, April 13 (Reuters) - The EU's environment chief Stavros Dimas will propose to ban imports of all seal products resulting from culls where animals suffer, he told Reuters, setting up a possible trade conflict with Canada.
Belgium and the Netherlands last year banned imports of seal products on their own, prompting Canada to launch a trade dispute with the EU as a whole in September. Both bans were the result of concern about cruel hunts.
"We will propose a ban of seal fur imports if (a country) can't prove they were obtained in a humane way," Dimas said late on Saturday on the fringes of an April 11-12 informal meeting of environment ministers in Slovenia.
When asked on the timing of a ban he said -- "It takes some time." The plan would need the backing of the rest of the EU's executive Commission, and would apply to all seal products including furs, skins and health products including vitamins.
Dimas declined to comment on what constituted inhumane killing, saying he personsally disliked any hunting, and instead referred to an EU-commissioned report by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) published in December.
The EFSA report recommended that animals were killed quickly, checked that they were dead and bled before skinning, and that monitoring procedures were in place.
At issue is how quickly the animals die, for example whether they end up being skinned alive.
Clubs or metal spikes attached to a wooden handle -- called a hakapik -- are only sure to kill young seals quickly if used correctly, while adults had to be shot, the EFSA report said.
It concluded -- "Many seals can be, and are, killed rapidly and effectively. (But) it is not always carried out effectively and this will lead to seals feeling the skinning."
Dimas's decision followed a record European Parliament vote last year backing a ban, he said. "The European Parliament passed a resolution with the greatest majority ever."
"I'm very much concerned at the way the hunt is conducted," he said, referring to the cruelty of some trapping practices. Animals can be trapped and drowned underwater, the EFSA said.
Some European Parliament members last month renewed their calls for the EU to act decisively. The largest Canadian cull is of some 275,000 harp seals from mid-March to mid-May.
Dimas complained about Canadian treatment of a European Commission expert team that tried to observe the hunt last year.
"They weren't able to do what they wanted to do. The Canadian local authorities were not very cooperative."
The EU already bars imports of furs from white-coated pups just days old, and Canada bans culling of such newborn seals.
Canada has argued at the World Trade Organisation there is no basis in science or international trade law to justify bans on the import of seal products, which provide an important source of income for many people in eastern Canada.
The EU would ensure that any ban didn't impact traditional hunting by the indigenous Inuit people, Dimas said.
Around 750,000 seals of at least fifteen species are killed and skinned for commercial purposes each year with Canada, Greenland and Namibia accounting for approximately 60 percent of all seals killed in 2006, the EFSA report said. (Editing by Matthew Jones)

Nancy Vernand (187)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 1:52 pm
Anyone that thinks clubbing innocednt baby seals is the correct sick, immoral, abusive thing to do is just plain psychotic.

Annie J (205)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 1:56 pm
Great news, Thanks Daphne

DAPHNE D (286)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 1:58 pm

Ariel SunDolphin (276)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 2:06 pm
Thank you.for the news Daphne.
And for anyone who thinks Seal Defenders only care about White Coated Newborns, see this Video Proof too,it's from twelve days ago, but it is still true.
Sage, yes I was offended by what was said to you too. It was one of the worst comments. Bless You Too. Thanx again Alf.

Anoushka D (28)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 2:37 pm
I'm ashamed to be Canadian...

Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 2:38 pm
I wish people would argue PROPERLY.
This is all a waste of time. No
one is going to maturely discuss
these issues.
Name calling? How OLD are you guys!?!
There is obviously something wrong, if people are spending so much time arguing over the same subject for days and getting nowhere.
Why can't we come up with some suggestions.
Maybe opening up a turbine field to make jobs.
We are all obviously caring people, and need to unite if we want something to change.
Keep people fed and employed, while making anti-sealers happy as well.
So far, there are people who oppose the sealhunt, and those who don't.


Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 2:42 pm
I'm sorry but DREAMCATCHER, my level of thinking and yours differ at the same plain. We both care, I care about the people, you care about the seals. I am in no way inferior to you because of my views.

Manny G (50)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 4:06 pm
The way that pro-sealer 'Michael' spoke to a young Canadian Lady , Sage in a sexually crude way, on this thread in front of other Ladies is intolerable.
I will not feed such trolls.

Questions about the Seal Hunt Inhumanity can be quickly solved by viewing this video, so capturing those in International waters in a Dutch ship documenting it will do no good. I care about people and Seals and I suggest those being falsely detained should be freed stat!

There is plenty of proof here, if any can still watch this & think it is humane, then we should have nothing further to say here and perhaps those still without mercy, should have quit while they were ahead while many in the world (including one who said so here) wanted to at least see these sealers given better jobs & training, which the Canadian Gov. should know how to do with all those tax dollars instead of this. That is suppossed to be THEIR job, not this bloody madness! Please view the truth.

Shaheen N (64)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 4:06 pm
Signed and noted

Dawn Redskye (9)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 4:54 pm
The people who were detained were warned more than once.
When they threatened the safety of Canadian citizens
the R.C.M.P had to step in. The Captain was fully
aware that he could be arrested but still persisted.

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 10:09 pm
I didn't stepinto this article and post because there are too many young and unexperienced members on the attack with misinformation and bad attitudes and judgements.
But the assumptions that Native will lose their right o hunt seals is wrong because it has worked here in Alska for along time.
Seals willnot over populate the planet because Mother Nature has managed the planet for alot longer than humans have been in existance.
And if the seal count is high in any given year doesn't mean that the need to be slaughtered out of existance with bad human judgement and crude weapons that do nothing but cause immense suffering.
And if I read more more comment by an individual that feels the need to just drop on in for an attack frenzy that are unjustfied and unwarranted...I'm just not noting the articles anymore. Its just toomuch noise andit takes away from all the hard work that good people do here on Care 2. Good activist that speak up for the voiceless do not need to be attacked by "ocassional, once in awhile memberst" that have no clue as to what it is that these good people do on a daily basis.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Sunday April 13, 2008, 10:19 pm

Wolfweeps - Please never hesitate to post your comments on any article. I enjoy them . . . and their wisdom.

Hans L (958)
Monday April 14, 2008, 2:18 am
According to dutch news the embassy is working on the case! According to Canada the ship has been in canadian water! But we know that the canadian government has lied many times before. If the hunt would be humane nobody would have to be afraid for the impact of these pictures if the seal hunt is OK thats fine with Europe! But it is not OK! No way otherwise this ship and all the evidence would not have been confiscated!

Pam F (221)
Monday April 14, 2008, 2:46 am
From the prolific documentation freely available all over the web,no reasonable person could credibly deny that the seal slaughter is horrifically cruel and inhumane.It's even more heartbreaking when you consider that "low pelt prices and soaring fuel costs have made the hunt a money-losing proposition for many sealers.
Pelt prices have dropped to about $33 this year from an average of $65 last year."
They are inflicting these atrocities for $33 per life,and losing money on it into the bargain! I find that obscene - and more than enough reason to stop this bloody business!
The world moves on - many people are having to find alternative ways to make a living - and if the Canadian government is subsidising a hideously brutal industry that is losing money - surely it would make more sense to subsidise something that would not make their international reputation stink to high heaven!
Don't waste your breath parroting "Australian kangaroos" etc - we have our obscenities here sure enough,and the kangaroo situation,bad as it is,is not the worst of them - the live animal export is one of the most shameful industries on the planet - but like the majority of Canadian people with the seal-kill,we do oppose it.One example (or a million) of other cruelties does not make any other one right - cruelty does not have borders or boundaries.
One thing I don't comprehend is why the pro-sealers are almost blaming the activists for the deaths of those sealers - they weren't the CAUSE of their deaths,whatever their attitude! far as the Sea Shepherd members who've been seized - as the
ship was not in Canadian waters,and had a perfect right to free passage - isn't it the Canadian government which is in breach of the law here?

Alf I (246)
Monday April 14, 2008, 3:04 am
Firstly Newfie your crediting Dawn as the only one with any brains around here because she is 'on your side' is a little pathetic. Also the sympathy card you're using is truly worn out too! All the bans make note of the inuits and leave their rights alone so get off your soapbox with the poor indigenous people subject. I've already pointed out that this massacre does not help their case or their livelihoods, if anything it is exploiting them too! It is keeping them in poverty with no other options and using their 'indigenous rights' to persist in a doomed cause.
Secondly a law forbidding ANYONE to even observe the slaughter is unconstitutional and should never have been brought. It is everyones duty to defy and break immoral laws.
"An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Alf I (246)
Monday April 14, 2008, 3:07 am
Dawn, claiming the moral highground because you care more about humans is lame too. A truly moral person cares about people AND animals AND the planet. All are equally important and impact upon each other. It is not kinder or cleverer to only care for ones own kind in fact it is exactly the opposite.

Manuel Duarte (1005)
Monday April 14, 2008, 3:15 am
Noted.Thank you.

Alf I (246)
Monday April 14, 2008, 3:45 am
Sea Shepherd Crew Update

All 17 of the Sea Shepherd crew of the Farley Mowat were brought into Sydney, Nova Scotia by the Canadian Coast Guard late last night.

Captain Alex Cornelissen and 1st Officer Peter Hammarstedt were detained and charged with approaching a seal hunt without a permit. They appeared in court on the morning of 13th of April. Although not yet confirmed, the Judge is asking $5,000 each for bail.

Amber Paarman of South Africa, Dan Villa, Greg Hager and Merilee Nyland of the United States, Anne Fournier of France, Merryn Redenbach of Australia have protested that they did not voluntarily enter Canada and because they were forced at gunpoint into the country they refused to sign immigration papers to enter. They are being detained by Canada Customs and Immigration. The other eleven crew-members were released and are staging a hunger strike at the court house in solidarity with Captain Cornelissen and 1st Officer Peter Hammarstedt.

Amber Paarman was the only crewmember injured by the Canadian boarding party. She suffered a blow to the side of her head from a Fisheries Officer when she objected to being manhandled by one of the officers.

The Farley Mowat remains in the custody of the Coast Guard along with all the personal property of the crew. All computers and laptops have been seized by the Federal Department of Fisheries. All photos and videos taken of inhumane activities by sealers have been seized by the Canadian Department of Fisheries.

"It is these images of brutal sadistic slaughter on the ice floes that Canada is desperate to keep hidden." Said Captain Paul Watson. "What the Sea Shepherd crew have witnessed over the last two weeks has exposed the lies of Canadian government claims that the seal slaughter is inhumane."

Canadian Minister of Fisheries Loyola Hearn authorized an assault on a Dutch registered vessel in international waters in order to detract from the tragedy his department was responsible for two weeks ago when four sealers drowned while under tow by the Canadian Coast Guard.

In Canada it is illegal to film, photograph or even witness a seal being killed without permission of the Minister of Fisheries.

Loyola Hearn said that the action was taken to protect the safety of the sealers.

Captain Paul Watson, presently en route to Sydney Nova Scotia responded by saying, "The sealers have nothing to fear from our cameras and everything to fear from Canadian government incompetence. So far Canada has been responsible for four deaths while we were simply taking pictures of sealers inhumanely killing seals."

Hans L (958)
Monday April 14, 2008, 4:23 am
If they have not been caught in Canadian water Canada will have a problem with Holland! There could not be a better proof that this slaughter is nothing to show to the world! THIS WILL BE THE END FOR THE CANADIAN SEAL SLAUGHTER INDUSTRY! The inuit can still hunt what they need to survive i think a great sollution for a great nation!

Dawn Redskye (9)
Monday April 14, 2008, 4:27 am
Hey, I'm not trying to claim higher moral ground, I'm trying to help people see that I care just as much as you only about something else.
Alf you just said yourself that what they were doing was illegal.
Do protesters have more rights then other people?

Oh, and Daphne?
I'm getting an education. I'm in my second year of university.
So, I guess I'm not there yet, but I'm doing the best I can with the tools I have.
(I also have better grammar than you from what I've seen:p)

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 4:45 am
Excuse me but I think that you are using her youth to say her opinion is invalid. Because I spoke out for her you call me pathetic? Yet that's all you ARA's do, you stroke each other's ego's over and over.

The true reason you don't acknowledge her reasoning or mine or anyone else that seem remotely associated with us because they don't trumpet your horn is because of your ARA reasoning. You don't accept anything but total support for your side. Anyone else that says any contrary is labeled and bullied.

The fact is that man was always the biggest predator of the harp seal. Various native cultures in the North existed because they hunted the seal as their primary source of food. Their stories, their beliefs and social interaction revolved around and still does to a lesser extent, the seal.

The seal is not a cuddly little puppy that you can hug. They are very aggressive and very adaptable. They need to feed and feed often. There's not much that they won't eat and they need to eat plenty to retain a high fat level to combat cold northern waters.

Everyone seems to think that with global warming the harp seal population will decline because they pup out on the ice. They have done it out there because it affords more protection for them. They congregate to do it because it affords more protection. Take those ice flows away and they will use land. They have done it before and will do it again. A seal is not going to swim around wanting to birth her pup but won't because she can't find ice. She will look for the next solid object, land. Yes it happens here where I live.

And that is the problem. The real scientist are the the people who have lived around, raised, hunted animals. Just here in Nfld the European immigrant has hunted the seal for several hundred years. Full utilization of the seal was necessary for survival. Once Europe needed them then that's where the wholesale slaughter came in. That happened not only here but everywhere in the world.

I could write a book here on the people and tie with nature as it was in Nfld from any time in history. There's no need for anyone to lecture me on my own history, you will lose that battle. The thing is that the people of Nfld survived because they fished, hunted and raised their own animals and vegetables as best they good. More importantly they social ties were very strong and that is still true today which pisses off urbanites who don't understand there's more to life than living in a broom closet size apartment behind locked doors.

People look at sealers as barbaric savages. For my Greek friend here the word barbarian originated in Greece and actually meant slave. Anyway, you look at these men and sometimes women as savages because they can kill an animal.When you are raised in an environment where you fish, farm and hunt you are conditioned to accept it. As long as there are meat eaters there will have to be people who must slaughter them. People block out that emotion to be repulsed. Imagine if we didn't have morticians, who the hell is gonna take care of your loved one.

Ever since someone figured out that they could get someone else to do their dirty work, people have started to lose such with their survival skills. Right now what is the percentage of people in the world who are feeding someone else who can't feed themselves I would say it's in the high 90s.

It doesn't matter if you only eat vegetables because someone is growing those veggies for you and you can't do it yourself. Throw in a world crop failure and you guys will drop like flies. You will scouring the country side like rats in a landfill dump. You'll be so desperate from hunger you will kill any animal and any person, you will even turn on your own. Your technology won't save you, your skills are gone and you will be as helpless .

But you know what? The toothless, uneducated, dirty savages you call animal killers will survive.

Now tear that apart and have your fun but remember, you preach catastrophe with oncoming global warming...better hone up on those killer instincts or practice your whimper.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 4:50 am
Guess the Coast guard forgot how incompetent they are and got the Fartey Mowat safely to dock. Bet those that were on board were frightened for their lives as they were towed.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Monday April 14, 2008, 4:56 am
Well said.
My age has nothing to do with how much I know 'ninety years in a hole doesn't make a person wise'
I have talked to so many sealers, all they can say is
'These people, they have no idea, just no idea'
no idea about what you may ask?
well, they have no idea what its like to live the life they do.
spend a year in their shoes, and you'll see.

Pam W (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 5:17 am
Only a coward could club a defenseless creature to death

Alf I (246)
Monday April 14, 2008, 5:36 am
A there we go trundling out all the same old worn out excuses. How has this massive slaughter for commercial profits got anything to do with small indigenous people surviving by hunting for themselves? NOTHING!
As far as surviving any future catastrophes the best way is not to go out and kill anything that moves but to grow your own food. In this day and age that is the only sensible and sustainable option.
I never once mentioned Dawns youth, I don't even know how old she is and you are the one Newfie sticking up for someone purely because they are on your side. In fact YOU are the one saying she is young and making excuses for her age. Why? So that she can now she can feel victimized with you?
Who are YOU to accuse anyone of bullying? If ARA's stand on the street handing out leaflets we are labelled tree-huggers. If we stand up for what we believe we are bullies!!
As for seals not being cute and cuddly, who cares? And if they need to go onto land to give birth isn't that their right too being an earthling?
Having sympathy with indigenous people I would have thought you of all people would see that no-one should own any rights to exclude other beings from lands and birthrights regardless of wether they are cute and cuddly or not.

Debbie L (180)
Monday April 14, 2008, 5:39 am
This is way beyond debate people... Everyone one has a right to their opinion whether or not I or anyone else agrees with it. Also, attacking people is not a responsible nor ethical way to conduct ones self. This is issue is a very heated and passion one for both sides, but that does not make threats or personal insults right.. So stop. This issue started out about an injustice done to the Sea Shepard crew who was in international waters filming laws being breached by the sealers. Canada's act surmounted to piracy and physical assault in my opinion, and it will back lash seriously on them as we are seeing. As pam's post shows, there is no reason for this hunt continue-no one is making a living off of this at 33 dollars a pelt. I truely feel for the Native Peoples issues brought up here, yes it is wrong and a perverse tragedy at what is being done to all native people-not just in Canada, Newf, -everywhere,etc. And the subject on whether or not they will be allowed to continue with hunting seals -I can't see where that would be a problem-most countries do not ban the hunting practices of their native community unless the species in question is endangered. Many people on Care2 are wonderful human beings trying to help Humans, Animals, and our Enviroment-They are not the KKK, they are compassionate people trying to make a difference everyday with other like minded people.Both sides on this arguement have baited, antagonized, and goaded... Education, background,financial status, ethnicity, color, religous path etc.. is not any measure of a human being folks, So stop with harmful tactics and insults.Eveyone on here has a right to express themselves in a respectful manner, everyone has a right to their take or opinion on an issue-its their opinion -they own it and no amount of slandering and attacking is going to change any one persons opinion.Calm discussion,presenting factual data and info, and giving some show of resepct to fellow humans beings will gain far more ground and credibility than what is going on on this post. I have watched this debate for over 24 hours, and have refrained from commenting because I did not wish to feed the fires already ablaze. But Enough is Enough, all that is being accomplished here on these postings is straying from the issue/news posted to be discussed,harmful, not necessary, and petty. Thats my 2 cents, not meant to offend anyone-just trying to put an end to this counter-productive harmful fighting.

Debbie L (180)
Monday April 14, 2008, 5:43 am
Also wanted to make my stance clear for everyone on Sealing: I am Totalling against it and find it beyond cruel, inhumane, and so needless.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:30 am
First of my reference to Dawn's youth was my response to Daphne's post telling her to get an education. I took that as a response to her being young and not to her being uneducated and ignorant as most of your side like to protray anyone who oppose them.

I never said seals can't or shouldn't bear their young on knowledge is that they will bear young on land if hey need to.

I will use the white vs native standard as that is what is always implied when it comes to native hunts. The standard opinion of your side is that natives have no native rights if they don't hunt using the methods of their ancestors and that they are now integrated white natives who are now accustomed to white standards even though they forced into it.

Your general opinion is that all animals have at least equal rights with humans but to carry it one step further your opinion is that no one has any right to kill animals. Any reference to natives being allowed to hunt is lip service because once you get your claws sunk in you will want to take that away.

There are millions more who oppose your view on that and you want them silenced on this web site even though it states opposing viewpoints are welcomed. In order to accomplish your goals you need to misinform people to tip the scales in your favor because you know that once they are tipped it is harder to reverse it.

The day an ARA person swipes my hand from putting the food I want to eat into it is the same day that hell freezes over. You can portray us as savages or whatever but if you believe in God then it is him that will judge us all in the end and not you and your kind.

As for growing your own food...yeah right.


Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:35 am
What COWARDS!!! Canada claims they have nothing to hide, that what they are doing is legal!! Well, this just made them look like lying idiots!! Evidently they have ALOT to hide if they have the Canadian Coast Guard attacking a ship in international waters!! Don't they know that international waters is just that...anyone can be there, this ship was doing nothing wrong, they better hope that none of the crew members on that ship was harmed considering that fact that they were not armed with anything but video cameras!!! SHAME ON YOU CANADA!!

Rebecca S (160)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:44 am

OMG, it is amazing the level of ignorance and BS getting spread around here.

1) The sealers can MOVE if they think life where they live is so very hard. They have a CHOICE to live there or elsewhere same as most other humans do.

2) The MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of dollars spent by the Canadian government, Coast Guard, RCMP and other entities to prop up, advertise, and subsidize this ridiculous, unnecessary and callous slaughter could be better used installing satellite Internet connections for the sealers and using them to fill out government forms or something like that for the money they supposedly need to see them through the non-fishing season.

3) that you actually need a law to say that the seal "hunt" cannot be photographed, videotaped or even witnessed without permission is tacit proof that even your own people know it is incredibly inhumane.

4) why is it ALWAYS that a large GROUP of the sealers will go after the NGO peoples who are documenting the slaughter? What cowards they are to attack using weapons - guns, hakapiks, clubs, knives, etc - groups of UNARMED citizens. If they are so justified, so humane, why do they so fear being watched as they go about their bloody business?? No, they are nothing but bullies and cowards. I would gladly and easily face down ONE at a time of those cowardly "men". Even sissies can win when in armed groups versus unarmed observers.

5) Newfie IS a troll as is Micheal O. Same old crap being spewed as last year. Nice how you invented a little group of reasons why you've been away for precisely a year. How terribly convenient you could make it back now. Lucky us.

6) As Alf stated, animal populations would and do automatically control themselves via nature. Deer populations wouldn't be "too much" if we humans hadn't removed all their natural predators. Seals existed perfectly fine prior to man's interference (as did all the other animals, too). That, again, is nothing but a convenient rationalization we humans like to use to justify our killing.

7) The fish stocks are depleted because of HUMAN mismanagement, greed and poor practices. When there were 20 MILLION seals (as compared to the paltry 6 million from now), there weren't starving seals because there was plenty of fish. Their populations will regulate according to food availability.

8) The so-called "reasoned" argument that vegetarians will die out if there is a crop failure, but that meat eaters will live is specious at best. If the crops/vegies fail, that would mean that other plant eating creatures will die out as well. Ergo, you will not have the animals to kill to eat either. Certainly not for very long.

9) The whole "we're native so we should get to continue with ANY so-called 'native' idea, tradition, way of life or whatever" is getting awfully old. You can't tell me that you are so into following "native" or in living "native" if you're sitting here typing on the Internet! Funny how following "native" is only done in as much as it benefits you. Funny how you don't turn away from "non-native" things when they offer convenience such as cars, indoor plumbing, brick houses, metal boats, computers, etc, etc, etc. You can't have it both ways and still think you can claim to want to "preserve native" things. BAH!

10) Native, not native, etc is all MOOT when it involves the brutal slaughter of baby animals for reasons completely unrelated to anything but money. The brutal killing of all animals should stop, but certainly that of baby animals who are killed in a horrific manner and suffer tremendously.

11) If you're upset about the deaths of the murdering sealers, BLAME YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT. THEY did it, not the observers.

12) to the person questioning the legality of Sea Shepherd, who in accordance with and for the enforcement of international law, boarded an illegal whaling ship that was conducting criminal activities while in a recognized SANCTUARY as opposed to the Canadian government illegally assaulting and boarding a foreign owned ship in international waters that was NOT posing a threat nor committing a crime...well, how can you compare the two? One was for enforcement of law...the Sea Shepherd's actions. The other was to protect inhumane killers from being observed by completely NON-THREATENING observers at their disgraceful practice...the Canadian government's actions.

Daphne, my dear friend, don't waste any more time with these fools, these bloody killers. Enjoy your champagne and I'll share a glass with you from afar!!

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:48 am
NewFie and Michael O i can't believe you can actually condone this act of violence but then again by your attitudes here on these comments, I don't doubt it!! And as far as the comment about the cows and steaks I am also I know that is not directed to me, this is supposed to be a civilzed discussion and you people have turned it into a bashing, I have flagged all that I feel are inappropriate and will continue to do so, everyone is able to speak their minds, but in civilized ADULT manner, but I am beginning to wonder if you two know the meaning of civilized since you can condone bashing a seal in the head for money and attacking a ship in international waters!!!

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:51 am
Daphne girl, don't let these seal bashers get to you, they are way below your level

Debbie L (180)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:58 am
NewfieToo, the debate here is not on a native hunt.. The Harp Seal killing is not a native only hunt. It is a hunt that is for pelt or fur of baby seals to sell.I myself have not implied nor will I that native peoples are savages. The issue at hand is the harp seal hunt and the attck on the Sea Shepard crew in international waters. The debate has gotten way off track. Please Do not judge care2 by this post-topic. Opposing view points are welcome here at care2, not everyone is going to agree with another on any one specific issue, and no one is going to be silenced for respectfully stating their views in a responsible manner here. But I would like to reiterate that this debate is not over a Native Hunt-it just isn't. I am not saying that there are no natives participating, I am simply saying that the issue is the Harp Seal killing for pelts-no matter who is participating native or non native. The true issue on this post is that while filming the hunting and procedures the crew and ship from the Sea Shepards was illegally and unlawfully harrassed, wrongfully taken into custody, and some crew members were harmed during the raid that in my opinion was totally wrong and illegal -thats the issue and what the debate should be over. No one should have attacked another member here for stating their opinion whether they agreed with it or not. That is wrong and should not happen. I also stated that I feel for the native issues and find what governing bodies have done to them appalling and sick-so I am in no way attacking you, native peoples, or anyone else on here,K. I am simply trying to say this news post has gotten way off track and has turned very ugly in my opinion.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:00 am
Why do people take it at face value that the Fartly Mowat was in international waters? The courts will determine exactly where they were.

Look at the top and see who started the bashing. I can see who. Did they get flagged? The flag button should be used on all and not those who disagree with you.

When I came here and saw the words that were said I spoke out in anger. It took me a while to calm down but if you notice there is stilling bashing going on and it's not coming from my side.

Funny thing is that I would defend your right to speak even though I know you wish to squash my right to it.

Perhaps I should start flagging people myself.

Debbie L (180)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:16 am
NewfieToo, there on many posts on here that I feel are wrong, and if you feel they are wrong, by all means flag them as inappropriate-that is our right here on care2 as it is others right as well. I am defending your right to speak out here, make no mistake on that. Everyone has a right to state their opinion-they should not however attack a person, their education level, ethnicity,reloigion, financial standing, etc. in doing so-that is not right in my opinion and a productive and responsible debate is not about bashing, attacking, or intentionally harming a person.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:30 am
Fair enough Debbie, but I'll leave it to you to do the policing here.

I too don't support the seal hunt to provide furs just for fashion. The problem I have is that there are people working to take away the seal hunt for any purpose including using it as food. There is so much to the issue but people aren't looking at the whole picture. They fail to recognize certain points and focus only on the points that support their views.

There are bad sealers who break the laws and every good sealer I know say they want those people punished hard. The sad fact is no one is really looking at the consequences of stopping the seal hunt with a seal population that is as high as it is. Fishermen know what seals eat and they know how much they eat. No one is denying a meal to a seal. WHat the objection is to is that the seals will destroy every thing out there to survive and once that happens they will starve in multitudes that will be sicker than any slaughter of seals on the ice.

Already in Maine the Grey seal population is exploding, there will come a point in time when they will have to be dealt with. The sea lions on the west coast are doing the same.

Now when it comes to toothless uneducated fishermen I guess you guys include your American fishermen and UK fishermen as well. They all say the same, the seals are multiplying too fast and the fishery is in danger.

Some of you will say nasty things about those fishermen but for people who eat fish and count on those fishermen to risk their lives to provide them with a meal than what do you say? The majority of fishermen don't fish one specie only and count on every specie they do fish to maintain their living. I'm pretty sure American and UK fishermen aren't too thrilled about losing their livelihood and having to move anymore than Nfld fishermen.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:33 am
"You want to talk shite to sealers and their families...get a plane ticket and go tell the families of the dead sealers what you say on here."

I take no pleasure in the deaths of these poeple, but it was your coast-guard that was towing the boat of the sealers who died. They towed the boat into floating ice, capsized it and then dragged it under water. So while no good person is happy about their deaths I do not see how you are blaming Sea Shepherd for what happened.

The simple fact of the matter is that the act of banning not only peaceful protest of the event, but even observation of it alone suggests that there is merit to the complaints of the protestors.

The question of the moment is wether or not the nations of those who were taken illegally (by international law) will actually stand up for their citizens or not. Up until this point I have been impressed with the extent to which Canadian officials will look the other way while illegal actions were taken against the Farley Mowat ( There is a video somewhere on the site, but there was no action taken to stop these people despite the presence of Canadian authorities.

In the end, your feelings on the killing of seals aside, the way in which the Canadian government is dealing with these protestors suggests that (as is all to often around the world) the lines of law are being blurred by political agendas.

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:34 am
Youth has everything to do with it Dawn and anyone under the age of 30. It is called LIFE EXPERIENCE. NOT BOOK AND MEDIA QUOATATIONS.".

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:37 am
"You want to talk shite to sealers and their families...get a plane ticket and go tell the families of the dead sealers what you say on here."

I take no pleasure in the deaths of these poeple, but it was your coast-guard that was towing the boat of the sealers who died. They towed the boat into floating ice, capsized it and then dragged it under water. So while no good person is happy about their deaths I do not see how you are blaming Sea Shepherd for what happened.

The simple fact of the matter is that the act of banning not only peaceful protest of the event, but even observation of it alone suggests that there is merit to the complaints of the protestors.

The question of the moment is wether or not the nations of those who were taken illegally (by international law) will actually stand up for their citizens or not. Up until this point I have been impressed with the extent to which Canadian officials will look the other way while illegal actions were taken against the Farley Mowat ( There is a video somewhere on the site, but there was no action taken to stop these people despite the presence of Canadian authorities.

In the end, your feelings on the killing of seals aside, the way in which the Canadian government is dealing with these protestors suggests that (as is all to often around the world) the lines of law are being blurred by political agendas.

Alf I (246)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:39 am
I agree. Debate is always good, thats how our political processes work. However some people presume to say what other people are thinking based on their own assumptions.
Newfie seems to think I want people silenced. If I wanted that I would have hit the 'block' button and shut you up. He also presumes I want to snatch the food from his mouth and stop ALL hunting. I have never said that and besides it would be an impossibility. I have more respect for someone who has the guts to go out and hunt his own food for survival than someone who buys a slab of plastic wrapped flesh from the supermarket. I do oppose any mass hunting and hunting for sport or profit though .
I wouldn't snatch the food from anyones mouth but would rather offer them some of mine.
Why scoff at growing your own food too? Societies were built on working together in the fields. The American Indians saved the immigrants by showing them how to grow native crops. I grow MY own food. Try it before you scoff because you can't rely on our governments to feed you for much longer and a diet of only meat will kill you for sure.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:43 am
Sorry for the double post.

Also, I would be more concerned with the content and depth of people's responses and less with their age. Maturity and depth of reason do not always come as a factor of age. Case and point; your caplocks button does not make your opinion more convincing or creditable.

Alf I (246)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:49 am
As for blaming the seals for eating too many fish, that excuse has also worn very thin.
In the 1950s and 60s, industrial fishing fleets decimated fish stocks off Canada's East Coast, hauling up in one hour twice the amount of fish a sixteenth century ship would take an entire season to catch. By the 1970s, it was clear the northern cod population was on the brink of collapse.

At the end of the same two decades, the harp seal population was also in a steep decline as a result of massive over-hunting. By 1974, senior Canadian government scientists were so concerned they warned that the harp seal population could be lost forever in the absence of a 10 year moratorium on sealing.

The world acted to save the seals. In 1983, responding to intense public pressure, the European Union stepped in and banned the import of whitecoat and blueback sealskins—the main products of the commercial seal hunt at the time. Since Europe was the hunt's primary market, kill levels dramatically declined and the harp seal population slowly began to recover.
The cod were not as lucky. In the 1970s, Canada established a '200 mile limit' to protect fish stocks from foreign fishing fleets. But instead of using the new law to allow stocks to rebuild, Canadian fishing companies dramatically increased their own take. Ignoring and suppressing advice from its own scientists, Canada's Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) authorized highly unsustainable quotas throughout the 1970s and 80s. By the 1990s, with northern cod stocks at only one percent of their historic levels, it was clear decades of over-fishing had resulted in an ecological catastrophe. In 1992, a moratorium was declared on cod fishing.
As 40,000 Atlantic Canadians lost a primary source of income, the DFO attempted to blame factors beyond their control. And despite a consensus in the scientific community to the contrary, seal predation on cod was at the top of their list. Given the residual anger about the EU sealskin ban, the failure of the cod stocks to recover, and the prevalent myth that seals harm fish stocks, seals were a perfect scapegoat for the dwindling fish stocks. Government and independent scientists argued that only 3 percent of a harp seal's diet consists of northern cod, and that harp seals also consume many significant cod predators. But their advice went unheard, and calls for a seal cull echoed loudly through Eastern Canada and within the DFO bureaucracy itself.
The current administrative framework of the DFO not only allows, but encourages the editing and suppression of science to achieve short term political gain. It is this situation, according to many Canadian NGOs, that has been the principal reason marine species have been and will continue to be exploited to levels from which they are unable to recover. As of 1997, fishing for twenty-two stocks remained prohibited (Canada 1997, 79-82), and in addition to northern cod; haddock, redfish, American Plaice and capelin have been over-fished to the point of commercial extinction.

Alf I (246)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:52 am
"All scientific efforts to find an effect of seal predation on Canadian groundfish stocks have failed to show any impact. Overfishing remains the only scientifically demonstrated conservation problem related to fish stock collapse."

- From a petition signed by 97 scientists from 15 countries at the 11th Biennial Conference on the Biology of Marine Mammals, December 1995

Alf I (246)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:54 am
And what do the politicians say to that?
"Mr. Speaker, I would like to see the 6 million seals, or whatever number is out there, killed and sold, or destroyed and burned. I do not care what happens to them…the more they kill the better I will love it."
- John Efford, former Canadian Minister of Natural Resources

"It is not study that we want…We want those seals taken out. I do not care how they are taken out. Every bloody one of them can be killed. I will go in there myself with a rifle and help shoot them."

- Lawrence O'Brien, former Member of Parliament, in an address to the Newfoundland House of Assembly, 2003

Debbie L (180)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:54 am
NewfieToo, not my job -thankfully to police what care2 members do.I understand the need for native people to be able to hunt for food, and I do not wish to see any more rights taken from native people. I just cannot support a cruel , inhumane,and needless hunt of baby seals ,just so someone can pay an astronomical amount of money to wear their fur. Horrible in my opinion. If the Harp seal killing is stopped for commercial selling, it doesn't mean that natives cannot retain their right to hunt them for food-That I can support as long as it is done in a humane manner( one which shows respect for the life the animal has forfit for you to feed your family-as it should be done). Mother nature has been balancing animal populations long before we humans tromped in a took over-hence when the imbalances began-man made. I do not wish for fishermen not to be able to make a living either-balance or middle ground should be achieved, and we shouold work hard at finding a middle ground/balance. Nature will take care of overpopulations, the animals themselves will styme their numbers when food sources are low, thus achieving balance without mans intervention. Nature when left to do it's job, does amazing things and manages balance very well. We humans have casued the imbalances, more intervention or inhumane culling of fauna will only produce more damaging outcomes. The Harp Seal killing is not about balance, and I simply cannot support that type of needless, inhumane, cruelty so someone can wear a dead animals fur and call it fashion. Nope cannot do it ....I find it repulsive, cruel, and needless. However if a native person needs to hunt for food for his or her family-that should be their right. Even though I cannot do it(hunt or kill an animal), it is should not be denied to you -you are feeding your family not killing babies for high priced fashion-Apple and Oranges in my opinion and cannot be compared.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Monday April 14, 2008, 8:20 am
I'm not just talking about the Natives, I'm talking about the fisherman as well.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 9:01 am
Thanks Rebecca I wish we also could vote comments many thumbs up to you:)))

"9) The whole "we're native so we should get to continue with ANY so-called 'native' idea, tradition, way of life or whatever" is getting awfully old. You can't tell me that you are so into following "native" or in living "native" if you're sitting here typing on the Internet! Funny how following "native" is only done in as much as it benefits you. Funny how you don't turn away from "non-native" things when they offer convenience such as cars, indoor plumbing, brick houses, metal boats, computers, etc, etc, etc. You can't have it both ways and still think you can claim to want to "preserve native" things. BAH! "

Yee Yean Lim (10)
Monday April 14, 2008, 9:30 am
Dang, my tv shown how cruel is those seal hunters when hunting the seals, the report says although many countries has condemn their act, the Canadian government ignores the plead.

Many UK countries has agreed to ban seal products, this is to cut off any benefit or profit that the Canada government would made.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 10:10 am
What about native cannibals? You would not take food out of the mouth of their children would you?

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 11:26 am
I loooooooooove care2. It is so democratic.
YouTube irrecoverably erases all comments when it suspends a user and ppl can’t understand why others commented the way they did.

Raven Sky Dawna Raven Sky Zimb (261)
Monday April 14, 2008, 11:41 am
I know some of the people in the office... I send my prayers that all is well. they are doing the good... this is unfortunate...

Raven Sky Dawna Raven Sky Zimb (261)
Monday April 14, 2008, 11:46 am
Ultimately we need to all create some loving and positive thoughts so this all can heal. For the seals and people too. It is all about the money as mentioned already and those who choose to clothe themselves in animal fur. I first feel for the animals who have no say in the matter, and then for those who are misguided in their consciousness and choices. We can all collectively shift this. We are all connected so dearly on this earth and those who choose to make choices for the animals need to hear themselves speak out of balance. No one deserves to die, the animals or people.

Scott Shaubel (816)
Monday April 14, 2008, 12:09 pm

More Than Three Billion People Condemned To Death From Hunger And Thirst
.. You are next.. Really. check it out,, from Madalina


Dave A (27)
Monday April 14, 2008, 1:53 pm
I have a many people here actually have visited the East coast of Canada? It seems from the comments that if your agree with the seal hunt then you're not welcome here. Is it natural for people here to wish death upon people who kill animals for a living?

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 3:46 pm
""""""""Up until this point I have been impressed with the extent to which Canadian officials will look the other way while illegal actions were taken against the Farley Mowat ( There is a video somewhere on the site, but there was no action taken to stop these people despite the presence of Canadian authorities. """"""""""""

I love how people misconstrue the facts. Those Canadian Officials that stood by as the Farley Mowat was assaulted were actually European officials on the French Island of St. Pierre/Miquelon. An Island that is the territory of France, as in the European country. Why can't people keep the facts straight about this issue?

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 4:35 pm
Oh welcome back Newfie Too as Dave Seal.

Don't get your IP Address blocked this time:)))

you are entertaining actually. Why don't you drop few lines to anti-sealing videos on YouTube. Me and my Shepherd friends will take care of you very nicely.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 4:35 pm
Dawn, my deep respect to you. Raven Sky, everything comes here to die so in that sense we all deserve to die - because we all must. I hate killing but we cannot avoid death, either the causing of it or our own and those who live by the deaths of others are just as human as the rest of us. Hunting for sport is a European concept and a hideous one. Hunting for food is a human concept and universal. Hunting without reverence for the life that sustains yours is as stupid as it is ugly. Hunting with indifference to suffering or enjoyment of it is criminal - actually and morally. There is a balance in nature whether we like it or not and humans are part of that balance. Vicious and needless cruelty is not part of it, never has been and cannot be justified by the need to maintain the balance. No one consumed by hate has a clue what it means to love - either people or animals.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 5:04 pm
Thank you for the information folks , I remeber back in the 60's and 70's while living in Canada and the concerns about the fish and about the seals.


Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 5:07 pm
Has anyone here actually witnessed this activity first hand? Is it as bad as described? How did you witness it?

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 5:42 pm
You have to get a permit from the Canadian Government to be allowed to see anything

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 5:45 pm
Got a Question for folks,,, when a school teacher does a study on sea animals, which includes seals. Does the teacher go and tell her or his students that the seals are clubbed etc to death? How do you think the children would feel?


Dawn Redskye (9)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:28 pm
I have been to the East Coast. Some of my mums closest friend are fishermen who support their families for a portion of the year.

Becky V.- If she does a study on farm animals, does she tell them that the chickens are breed inhumanly to get their heads cut off, or that pigs are raised in filthy conditions to be bled when it's time?
At least the seals have a free life beforehand.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:35 pm
"At least the seals have a free life beforehand."
You are no better than pro-whalers.
I heard this so many times, at least whales lives free until we kill them for science, it is just lame...

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:38 pm
Ok! Never Mind. I just saw how old you are :D

Dawn Redskye (9)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:40 pm
Attacking me will not convince me to respect your arguments nor will it refute mine.

Margaret Trainor (61)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:47 pm
I am going to step in to the frey...I wasnt going to but I feel I must.
It would be a wonderful world if every creature including humans lived to be 100 and lived a wonderful life.
That is not reality. The seal hunt serves a purpose and a reason. It is a source of revenue for our Atlantic sealers. It is sometimes their only living and that is what they do to feed their families..I think the problem here is seals are cute and the seal hunt is done in the open. We see many photos of seals having their heads bashed in but that is not the usual practice ...most often they are shot with rifles...
The seal hunt also culls the over population of the seals ...when there are too many they affect our fish stocks.
Now before everyone has a hissy fit ...what is the difference ...other than cuteness...cows get stunned and most often bled and skinned when they are not fully dead,,,this is a fact.
Chickens get beheaded alive hung upside down,,,this is a fact.
Pigs get gullited upside down and bleed to death...this is a fact.
Lambs have their throats slit hung upside down...
should I go on...
The problem here is seals are cute and the act is done in the open ...not some factory farm states side. Just my 2 cents.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 6:52 pm
Thanks for the answer as I said it was just a question....

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:40 pm
Mulitple handles created when you get suspended, repeated post that attaack regular members from people that come once a year? Please. And you had the gall to correct me on one sentence of capital letters? This is why good people don't post.
If your going to come here, why don;t you put your time to to good use, or create a petition to "preserve your precious seal slaughter"?
and it does matter when an individual has "LIFE" experience. It's called existence on this planet for more than a mere 16-18 years of age.
My family has spent the last 8 years traveling the Northern continent both coast for the last 8 years. Both Canada and the United States, and yes I know what goes on, and have witnessed the past seal hunts.
And if your making a judgement of a persons character based on mis-spelled words, then that 99% of the world population when their typing anything for that matter. A pretty pathetic excuse for an argument to say the least.
I have any of the 7 companion animals in my lap at any given time when I'm online, and if thats all your judging anyone on...then it DOES show level of skill on communication and people skills and maturity level.

Again, animals have existed on this planet for ar longer than man, and they will hopefully will outlast humankind if there is any justice in this world.
I find it also hard to believe that Canada has banned subsistance hunting by Natives across the total country of Canada. You'll have to prove that to me since you claimed it.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:54 pm
Dawn Redskye I did not attacked you. Since you are too young you may understand this that way, and that is totaly normal. I simply backed up. My age and experience requires that.

Dave A (27)
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:55 pm
Just a question said you witnessed past seal hunts. When and where did this take place?

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Monday April 14, 2008, 9:12 pm
When I was a young teenager visiting my maternal grandparents extended family in Quebec and much of eastern Canada. My maternal grandfather was of Native blood, and was born and raised in Eastern Canada. He immigrated to the U.S. as a young man.
So your not dealing with an innocent idiot here as the other newbies, or ocassional once in a blue moon members would like to believe. I have not been in Eastern Canada since the mid 70's, but still have existing family in Canada, in both western and eastern Canada.....
I know much more about the seal hunt than I care to, and I am not as ignorant as people would like to believe. It is not the neccessary evil that people would like to make themselves believe, and many of my family in eastern Canada have not seal hunted in many years. I too am of Native blood, on my maternal grandfather,and my maternal grandmother who was from the from the southern United States.

Past Member (0)
Monday April 14, 2008, 9:39 pm
Thank you for sharing Wolfweeps.

Rebecca S (160)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 12:48 am

No one here who is against the seal slaughter condones or supports the brutal slaughter of any animal for food, either, Margaret. Just because ignorant people world-wide commit atrocities every day doesn't make them right. Many of us on here ALSO fight against the things you mention.

As for the "over population" and "affect fish stocks" arguments, those have been REPEATEDLY shown to be BOGUS, so I really wish people would quit using them.

Why have NONE of you seal murderer supporters addressed my comments about the MILLIONS spent by the government to prop up this welfare disguised as work?? Why NOT spend those millions finding other ways for them to make money?? What is wrong with that suggestion?? Or can't those brutes manage to type or spell so as to be able to utilize the Internet for money?

As for the comments about the illegal actions of the killers re: Sea Shepherd, that quote wasn't about the incident on the island. I believe that quote was from an earlier assault on the Sea Shepherd crew in a previous year. It was simply used to illustrate the point being no one lied or misused the info.

Lynn G (3)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 2:41 am
I hope the crew are ok. Here is another prime example that the Seal hunter's are only involved in the hunt because they are violent people. I track the seal hunt every year, and I am forever amazed at how cruel it is. I remember one or two times a seal hunter came after the Canadian Humane Society with one of his clubs! I think the seal hunter's actually enjoy inhumanely killing the pup seals and attacking people against the hunt. Canada, have you no shame?

Alf I (246)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 2:41 am
Margaret please read past comments before repeating old worn-out arguments which have already been addressed.
See my posts at:
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:49 am
Monday April 14, 2008, 7:52 am
Which explain why you are misinformed.
Bringing up other animal cruelties is just a sign of desperation and has no bearing on this case.

Alf I (246)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 2:49 am
Author Farley Mowat Bails Out Anti-Sealing Protesters
Great news thanks Mirror!!

Margaret Trainor (61)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 4:33 am
Alf may I remind you I am a Canadian citizen ...I am not misinformed at all.

Hans L (958)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 4:51 am
Lets all agree that Canada is free to decide how to continue this seal slaughter! Just like the rest of the world is free to ban seal products!
And they will because selling something that needs to be hidden for the rest of the world so extremely well cannot be OK! I think that if the hunt and i mean hunt not slaughter would be OK Europe would not have a problem!
And i mean that Jeff had a point when he told that the Ban is not for all seal products! But the way Canada is acting right now this loophole might be closed! We will see how Canada will deal with Europe in this crisis!
Holland will investigate if the ship has been in Canadian waters in that case the price for the SCCS could be up to 200.000 but i doubt that they
have been that stupid!

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 5:44 am
The Globe and Mail has a full page about what is going on with the seal hunt. Its on page A10 of the news paper. Head lines are " The Seizure of the Farley Mowat, Hearn 'absolute liar',ships'captain says, "Ottawa keeping observers from hunt, anti-sealers charge" and last "Wooing voters?, Politics behind ship's seizure critics say"


Rebecca S (160)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 6:11 am


Dave A (27)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 6:42 am
thanks for sharing Wolf. Where was grandfather from more precisely? It appears from your post that some of your relatives still hunt seals, how do you feel about that? The closer you are to the area of the cause you support then in your have your own flesh and blood that are on the opposite side of the table.

Where your relatives have hunted seals and the anti side have said many things that are not too kind..would you agree with those comments? Many supporters for the seal hunt have said that their own that hunt are the most kindest, nicest people.

I'm asking these questions not to gain support for one side or the other but to get the words from the horses mouth, so to speak. I'm from Nfld, I never killed a seal, my family don't hunt seals and I don't know any relatives that have participated in the seal hunt. Where you are a supporter of the anti seal hunt and have relatives who have and still hunt seals this makes for an interesting discussion. So please don't think I have bad intentions when I ask you questions.

Actually you can describe to your side much better what you have experienced in relation to the seal hunt. How old were you? Did you actually go out and see seals killed? If so was it by hakipik or rifle? If not, did you see dead seals brought to land and were they already skinned or did you witness the skinning? Also, what parts of the seal were used and do you know what the pelt was used for or was it just sold?

That's a lot of I really hope you don't mind answering them.

Dave A (27)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 7:12 am
I'm not sure if it was posted here that someone made a comment about no one being allowed to observe Canada's seal hunt. There were actually 75 permits issued for observers to be allowed as close as 30 feet. The whole problem with the observer permits is that some are not there to only observe but to taunt and harass the sealers. Obviously the sealers complain about it and obviously that wasn't the intention of passing out those permits.

So for those that did and do go out there to observe, video, photograph the seal hunt, the ones that cause the problems spoiled it for those who calmly went about getting what they needed for whatever purpose.

Canada is the only country that allows observers to witness the seal hunt and gives them pretty good vantage points, 30 feet is darn close. Aircraft are given a distance as well.

SSCS did not have a permit and despite several warnings on different days they came inside the 900 meter distance that a vessel is allowed to approach the seal hunt without a permit.

I'm not going to argue with anyone about the FM being in International waters because the courts will decide that.

Another thing I want to touch on is the incident that happened a few years ago between the SSCS and the Genge crew in 2005. One of the SSCS crew named Ian Robichaud who owns the web site told me after that incident that they had planned that to happen. They went out there to taunt the sealers into a confrontation to get video footage. Of course the sealers lost their cool and obliged them. I know most will say that the sealers should have walked away and and that they caused the fight and etc. But you know something, I've seen worst school yard fights with girls than that video footage and if you really look at it and see Genge going with his arms and swearing and everyone slipping around it actually looks very comical. Another point about confrontations like that is that far worst goes on at union strikes and sports events.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 7:51 am
There are half a million people in Newfoundland and Labrador. The last count of seals was in January this year and there were 5.5 million seals. Canada doesn't let the population fall below 4 million. If it does, immediate measures are taken to make sure the population comes above 4 million.
Also, International waters begin 12 miles of Canada's coast. The F.M was found less then a mile from shore.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 8:09 am
Our arguments are just as worn out as 'sealing is just plain wrong', or 'baby seals are so helpless'.
We have refuted these over and over and yet people still use these to argue.

I'd like to bring attention to a phenomena that has been haunting the midwestern United States.
Thousands upon thousands of wild horses are being bought and slaughtered legally.
These are the last of their species.

Just thought I might point that out since everyone else's arguments are juvenile.
If people are so concerned about killing a species, why not ask the U.S government to stop allowing meat corporations to buy and kill wild horses.

One last concern of mine is the fact that a few individuals are disregarding my arguments because of my age, the life experience they think I have.
You people know nothing about me, my life and any of my experiences. Please stick to the issue here. (I know I brought up a different subject, but It is not meant to bring attention away from sealing, but I thought the other issue should be addressed since we are on the subject).

Margaret Trainor (61)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 8:28 am
Dawn ...good for you . Very valid points. You may be young, but you are Canadian so you are also smart...which is very evident by your well thought out and researched responses...thank you!!

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 9:11 am
oh let's all have a Canadian Group Hug

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 9:46 am
Canadian Group Hug. Wonderful idea IAMD. Good thoughts lead to good things.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 10:09 am
Wonderfull, simply wonderful. Good thoughts indeed!

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 10:13 am
I for one have visited Newfoundland, and they are wonderful people. Good honest, hard working folks.

Sealing, it is legal in Canada, is it not?

What laws do they break?

Why do Sea Shepherd Society Look down on these people more than others?

Margaret Trainor (61)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 10:56 am
All Canadians are wonderful people >>>in my opinion

Louise L (9)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 11:02 am
Ditto Margaret...IMHO! And thank you In A Mirror Darkly (Isil) for the group hug...we could sure use one after the last two days!

Margaret Trainor (61)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 11:04 am
No kidding

Scott Shaubel (816)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 11:16 am

- personally, I don't kill anything, and I for sure don't approve of the

method, but when more people are concerned about seals than their fellow

man, we have problems.

More Than Three Billion People Condemned To Death From Hunger And Thirst
.. You are next.. Really. check it out,, from Madalina

- I think everyone should boycott the USA.

They are killing a lot more men women, and children, all over the world,

than Canadians are killing seals.

The seals will be here, and the people will all be dead..

Concentration Camps For American Citizens......"Stop "feeling sorry" for your Tormentors before it's too late. Bowing to the ones Taking Over USA is INSANE!"

... Fire Away, Matey's :o)


Margaret Trainor (61)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 11:22 am
Oh Scott...what a ....disturber you are

Louise L (9)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 11:28 am
Yes may have to call on your 627 friends to get you out of this one! LOL

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 11:35 am
I am Canadian too but I personally do not and will never agree with the Minister of Fish and Oceans never when come to Seal Hunting Never.

Scott Shaubel (816)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 11:42 am

- As I said, I don't kill anything, I don't eat meat, I don't agree with

the seal hunt,..

.. but I do like it when people crawl out of their holes, at least make a comment. Even if I have to instigate them.. :o)

Dawn Redskye (9)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 11:53 am
I think since the sealing fury has died down, I think we should bring our new discussion to a different section. This page takes a while to load.
( . _ . )

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 12:25 pm
"""Minister of Fish and Oceans"""

Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 12:28 pm
Thank you for the correction Bonitio two

Alf I (246)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 12:34 pm
Yes Dawn I agree why don't all the pro-sealers go somewhere else and pat each other on the back. Why come here to shower us all with your outdated, ill-informed and worn-out arguments. There are plenty other sea shepherd news threads you can go and waste your time on.

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 12:35 pm
Not a problem.

Alf I (246)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 12:45 pm
Any trolls will be blocked too.

Scott Shaubel (816)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 12:46 pm

- great work Alf, this must be a record, for the amount of comments.

People are slowly waking up...

What about this...

Concentration Camps For American Citizens....Most Americans can't give change for a dollar(that's worth about minus 10 cents)..let alone figure out what they are going to do, when they are being herded up, for something like Anti-Social Behavior(new law)..People have been arrested, in the USA,.. for giving away free food,.. because, .. the government say's that it is Anti-Social, to give away food... Wake-Up America..... Please : )

Check this, and comment on what you think about it :-)

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 2:24 pm
CBC interview with Paul Watson

Alf I (246)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 3:14 pm
Very funny! Blocked you Troll.

Alf I (246)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 3:23 pm
Okeedokee, thanx for the heads up on that group WOW it looks interesting. 3 members.........maybe Dawn needs to have a rethink?
Scott you are in danger of spamming LOL.........
I'll be returning the favour soon. ;)

Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 3:51 pm
Thank You Alfl. for posting the news article and letting folks talk about this problem.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 4:56 pm
Oh people. You aren't bugging me like you think you are. You are making yourselves look foolish. Insulting me, then blocking me, displays immaturity and fear. Are you afraid that I am going to stalk you?
I don't know about you, but regretting a slanderous comment should not cause you to run and hide but face up to your actions.
You don't have to scorn a culture because they are not as technologically advanced as yours.
I'd like to see how you'd react in a rural African Village.
Don't try resort to callous remarks if you feel you are losing an argument.


Past Member (0)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 5:35 pm
Thanks Alf. I recommend this link for anyone who wants the truth as told by Paul Watson


Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 6:43 pm
Sorry about getting back to you so late, but I work in the wee early mornings, and pull 12 hour shifts when needed. Just got home and I am behind as usual
It's been over 30 years since my grandfather died, he passed in 1979. He was in his late 80's at the time of his death. I can't remember the small communities name for the life of me right now, and all of my scrapbooks and memories of him are still packed since our traveling adventure began in 2000....*S* We've finally called an end to the traveling, and it will take months to finally get all personal thing unpacked since we packed them all away in 2000. Somenone told me the other day that when I finally get my stuff all out of boxes it will be like the stuff will be like new...since I have forgotten many of the things I packed away so long ago...*S*
But anyway, I don;t remember the name. I went on the misadventure with my grandfather, brother and several cousins and uncles. Let's just say it was tramatic, and left me with nighmares for years. They were shot with rifles,and skinned when brought back to land on the spot. The fur was used by the family, and not any of it was sold, and all of the seal used..never wasted. I would not gift that horrible experience on my worse enemy. I had nightmares that would make me cry in my sleep and my brother became an anti hunting person at just 9 years old. My grandfather had diabetes, and suffered from dementia beginning in his mid 70's. He always felt bad about taking my brother and I out on ice to see the killing, and he thought for a long time that we hated him. But we never got mad or angry at him or family about the experience, but just begged him not to take us again. And that was a promise he kept. Being Native is something we accepted that hunting as a survival issue, so I understood it, but did not like it.
But understand, I am not anti hunting. Never have, and never will be. But I am anti trophy hunting, and against those that kill for sport. Grandpa taught us if you don't eat it..don't kill it. Thats just the way it is. If you can't use the whole thing, don't kill it. Period.
My grandpa and his extended family never got angry with my feelings or fear about the hunt...and never waved it in my face my fear and digust over the hunting was never judged either. We just were exposed to an experience, and it is just a part of my life experience. Not one I will ever forget, and I wished many times to forget.

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 7:22 pm
Ariel...thank you.

For the rest of those that that can't understand my point of view here is the only way I can explain it.
There was a movie made a few years ago, the name of it was "Powder". The character Powder was played by Sean Patrick Flannery.
I encourage those that have never seen it to please see it.
There is a scene in the movie where a deer is shot during a hunt, and Powder is trying to share the dying of the deer with the shooter..a fellow student.
This is how I see the death of an animal when it is killed for killing sake.
It rattles my soul.
All life has value. It feels, it has meaning and purpose on this planet. They are not here for our soul purpose of existance. They just are here to share the planet with us. They have a right to live out their existance without being murdered out of existance.
They have the right in just Being.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 7:35 pm

I have my own point to make:

Just because a poster does not agree with you, does not mean they are not a good person.

(If it seems like I'm talking to pre-middle schoolers here, it's because I honestly feel I am.)

Please do NOT send me threatening emails asking me to delete friends because you differ with their opinions.


I have no use for pre-K mentalities who wish me to "choose who's your best friend."

I'd rather OPT OUT!

Cher C (1426)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 7:39 pm
Beautifully said Wolf weeps!

I couldn't agree more.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 8:21 pm

This is a debate. That means there are TWO sides. Both need to be heard.

Now, if you only want people to hear ONE side, and have any opposing opinions banned, consider moving to CHINA, or using a site there that favors you.

Otherwise, when you use strong-armed tactics to get results and punish your opposition -- YOU ARE NO DIFFEREENT!

Enjoy the Beijing Olympics!

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 8:22 pm

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 8:54 pm


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 8:57 pm

Being a fanatic, and banning opposing opinions only betrays your own cause.

I believe in the sanctity of ALL living creatures -- which means that I accept and respect all.

By doing less, you betray your own cause.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 9:43 pm

And, because I think my trusted friends should be aware of how LOW YOU CAN GO -- I think I'll post it (without your name, even though everyone will KNOW who you are!)

It's called EXTORTION.

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 9:51 pm

(I DETEST controlling personalities who feel they have the right to judge the choices of their associates.)



Original Message:


just saw that you have killers at your list & you are comment them...if you wanna be friends with trolls & killers just delete me.thx

Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 9:52 pm

Still figuring out "& you are comment them."


Carole Sarcinello (338)
Tuesday April 15, 2008, 10:03 pm

Another thought: I am GLAD you will never speak for my side. (I'd do better with an enemy. Basically same difference. LOL)


Kathy Chadwell (354)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 12:07 am
Just so it's known... Hello we have been working on this for 9 years now and we still have loop holes but we are still working on saving our American Icon the Horse. I've never said the government didn't s-ck, all governments do. WE will now stop them from transporting our horses and we need to close that loop hole about human consumption to zero tolerance on any horse slaughter for any reason except sickness or old age/with sickness, & then it won't be bashing them in the head.

Illinois Bans Horses Being Slaughtered for Human Consumption - Associated Content

The governor of Illinois, Governor Rod R. Blagojevich, signed legislation on May 24 that bans slaughtering horses for human consumption, according to a press release by the governor's office. The House Bill 1711 was sponsored by Democrat representative Robert S. Molaro and Illinois Democrat Senator John Cullerton. The bill specifically bans importing or exporting horse meat if the meat is to be consumed by humans. Illinois is the 49th state to ban the slaughter of horses for human consumption.

Illinois contains the last slaughterhouse for horses in the United States, located in De Kalb. Texas previously had two horse slaughterhouses. The Texas slaughterhouses were ordered closed in March after losing the right to further appeals. Texas has had a ban against horse slaughtering since 1949. The two Texas horse slaughterhouses were charged with violating Texas law by allowing horses to be slaughtered for human consumption. All three of the horse slaughterhouses are foreign owned.

Sid Miller, a state Texas representative, sponsored a bill to repeal the 1949 Texas ban against horse slaughter. His last proposal has since died. Opponents of the ban believe that horses should be treated as any other livestock. They also say that shutting down the horse slaughterhouses causes loss of jobs.

In his press release, the governor announced his pride in signing the bill into law. Governor Blagojevich said he decided to support the bill after hearing from activists, including actress Bo Derek, in April. Bo Derek has been a firm supporter for the rights and protection of horses.

The press release quoted Senator Cullerton as stating that many people were offering horses for sale not knowing that the animals were headed to a slaughterhouse. The Humane Society of the United States reports that over 100,000 horses were slaughtered in the United States in 2006. An additional 30,000 horses were exported to Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered. The Humane Society of the United States would also like a federal law passed banning the export of horses that are to be slaughtered.


Hans L (958)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 12:53 am

LET THE TROLLS FEED CARE2! If Care 2 thinks that they can!

If Care2 does not kill the trolls the trolls will kill care2
Randy does not seem to care at all!

Care2 its up to you 24 hours to delete all the empty profiles or activists
like Daphne will be gone! Taking many members who realy care2 with them!

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 1:20 am
I have to say that if the owners/operators of Care 2 Network would put to use the 1/4 of the effort of all the effort that the good activist work so hard at here on Care 2....we could move mountains.
I see popel, good people leaving Care 2 because we, the activist have become voiceless because Care 2 does not support its own members.

All we, the members can do is to ignore, not acknowledge, and extend total silence when these people start their childish, attacking and meanspirited comments on any and all issues and article on Care 2.
The people that play their games have no power if we don't acknowledge them now can they?
We literally have to totally ignore them all, walk away from Care 2 and find a safer my workable and member friendly site that is stricter in its ability to track multiple profile creators.
Obviously a petition..a few of them now are not being paid any attention to, are being ignored and not even acknowledged in regards of this multiple profiles, trolling and harassment problem.
In my humble opinion, Care 2 shows us all that their own petition system isn't even acknowledged by this person who created this website.
This isn't an attack, but an honest question.
When will the members be acknowledged about the trouble on Care 2?

It makes it very hard t believe any of the the intro about this website...

Dear friends,

The seeds for Care2 were planted many years ago. As a 13-year-old boy, I traveled with my father in a thatch-covered boat up the awe-inspiring Amazon. My father studied Latin American birds, while I marveled at the rich wildlife, lush vegetation and fascinating people we encountered deep in the jungle.

Even as I was moved by my lush surroundings, my heart was heavy from the sickness, poverty and deforestation that stood in stark contrast to the rainforest’s beauty.

One simple truth stuck with me: The world is terribly out of balance. From that truth, an overwhelming desire to make a difference was born. I realized that the power to make a positive change in the world was within each of us. But how do we harness that power?

The answer came in 1998. The Internet. Finally, the power to mobilize the world was at hand. I raised money from some kind and crazy souls, then really lucked out in finding two extraordinary partners — Matt McGlynn (now our chief technology officer) and Camilla Eriksson (now our vice president of e-cards). In September 1998, we launched Care2 from my tiny apartment.

Care2 provides powerful tools to make a difference in your life, community, country and world. It’s driven by passionate people (just like you) who want to restore the world’s balance.

Care2 grew out of my apartment a long time ago. Today, over 50 employees, 8 million members, 250 nonprofit organizations and hundreds of responsible advertisers contribute to making powerful, positive changes in our world.

Thank you for caring!

President and CEO, Care2


Rebecca S (160)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 1:24 am

Hmmmmmmm, seems there is still no one willing to address my comment about the Canadian government providing the welfare necessary for this slaughter to continue.

Why can't those MILLIONS be spent providing high speed Internet access and training to give the seal killers other skills with which to make money??


Rebecca S (160)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 1:28 am

Hmmmmmmm, seems there is still no one willing to address my comment about the Canadian government providing the welfare necessary for this slaughter to continue.

Why can't those MILLIONS be spent providing high speed Internet access and training to give the seal killers other skills with which to make money??


Hans L (958)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 1:43 am
How about this where are the Canadians in Care2 that say:
"Seeing my tax dollars hard at work arresting seal protesters makes me ashamed to call myself Canadian. Our government just doesn't get it. Why are we investing hundreds of millions of dollars across Canada to attract tourism when we're prepared to flush our international image down the toilet for $20-million in seal pelts? This cruel slaughter is disgusting, it's an economic disaster, and it's an embarrassment.
Craig Kelley"

Rebecca S (160)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 1:49 am

Sorry for the double post!! But I still want an answer!! lol

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 2:17 am
They can't answer that Rebecca because they have already used up their parrot fashion arguments which have been drilled into them by the pro-sealing lobby and money hungry politicians. They have no point of reference. Also I blocked the trolls anyway.............

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 4:23 am
Troll 4 that video is very old and also Captain Watson is talking about Greenpeace in it. Use your brain! It isn't anti Sea Shepherd it is anti-greenpeace which is fine by me!

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 4:28 am
Oh and you're blocked too. Again. As for forcing opinions on others, what is it YOU are doing?
The subject of killing animals includes a being who can't speak for itself so the opinion of it being wrong SHOULD be 'forced' on others.
If it was your opinion that being cruel to a child would you keep silent for that child's sake? It is not the same as having an opinion that someone is ugly or fat which yes should be kept to yourself.
I fpeople never spoke up for others then this world would be a very sad and soryy place. Oh yeh, it already is!!

Hans L (958)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 4:32 am
I agree with Alf i have been a Greenpeace whaledefender but since Greenpeace did not want to protect the whales i think that we should support the true defenders! Who is protecting the seals right now! I only see HSUS and SSCS!
I would love to see Greenpeace on the ice, or with a boycott! IFAW is like greenpeace just collecting money!

Paul Watson is right about Greenpeace thats why he had to leave! They just wanted to collect money he wanted to protect animals and nature!

Rebecca S (160)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 4:42 am

I am saying WELFARE because the whiny little sissy sealers couldn't go out and club innocent babies to death WITHOUT THE CANADIAN GOVERNMENT'S FINANCIAL SUPPORT!!!!! Who do you think pays for the icebreakers, the staff on those, the rescues every time one of those dumba**es gets their boat stuck in the ice, the RCMP who must be there to "protect" the sealers from the big, bad OBSERVERS, and the promotion of seal products to other nations, etc??? That is what I mean by WELFARE!!!!! They couldn't do it on their own. Period. When the government props up an industry just to supposedly "employ" poor people for a period of time, that is WELFARE.

Per the dictionary: financial or other assistance to an individual or family from a city, state, or national government:

So, with all the MILLIONS spent each year by the government on this brutal murdering, why can't that money be spent on some other way or training for these "men" to make money??? If the rural areas have HS Internet, why can't they be trained to do something using it instead of killing??

Margaret Trainor (61)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:03 am
Wow I have to agree with Troll 5 on this one ...I cannot believe the passion for this. Animals are killed every day...what makes this one different??? Is it because it is done int he open? Baby cows are killed every day,,,but in closed places cannot see them fall and die. Cows, chickens, lambs. etc are killed every day. Shot int he head...coats used for shoes or coats or furniture ...why such passion for these beasts...I think this is the most commented thing I have ever seen on here in the years I have been on here...and the insults wow folks.

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:03 am
If they need to raise money for less media-friendly issues like saving sharks or turtles then so be it. It's a shame that people only seem to want to save 'cute' animals but thats the way of the world.
By subsidizing this sorry way to make a living the government are doing the people a disservice. They are also keeping them in a lifestyle which is bordering on the poverty line. Are they really doing it for the benefit of those people? I don't think so.
You're being duped.

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:08 am
Margaret must I repeat myself again?
Just because there are other animal cruelties in the world doesn't mean we should ignore one over the other.
I am VEGAN as I don't want to contribute to ANY cruelty human or animal. What do YOU do to make this world a better place?
Most of the good people on care2 are doing something about all the other issues too. This thread is about seals not horses, cows, pigs etc.
Your tangents don't support your argument they just dilute it.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:12 am
OK, Rebecca,
There are things that you don't understand. I don't know if you ever will either. But rural communities are different then suburbs or ghettos. Most of Canada's economy is based on exploiting natural resources. There are too few people there to justify a service based economy.
You can train as many people as you want, give them internet, but as long as there are no jobs or resources, they must resort to hunting.

Alf, summarize your argument. The only reason we are using the same arguments is because there hasn't been any rebuttal strong enough to end them.
If you don't want to hear our arguments then stop your self-righteous sarcasm and come up with a decent argument.

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:14 am
Troll 5 you just showed how ridiculous you really are. I did not equate a child with a seal I just used it as a reference. I started my whole route towards animal rights by starting at child cruelty years ago which I still fight. The trouble with some people is they can't get past the point of only caring about their own kind. This shows how ignorant and ultimately uncaring they are. Just like the vivisectionists who defend their cruelty by threatening children with deadly diseases.
If we were all like that there would still be slavery and genocide of indigenous people like those you profess to defend!!

Rebecca S (160)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:18 am

If the industry needs SUBSIDIZED/WELFARE then it shouldn't exist. Just like the subsidies to so many other businesses are wrong, this one is, too. And the dictionary also states that subsidies ARE a form of welfare. So, yet again, you cannot refute what I'm saying nor have you yet explained WHY this MUST be the form used to make money.

Why should millions be spent by taxpayers just so these seal killers can make a few THOUSAND each? Are they incapable of being trained to do something else? Too dumb? What is the reason? Why not simply GIVE those millions in subsidies to the killers and then they wouldn't have to do it at all?

Oh, wait, then they wouldn't have anything to whine about like how those vicious PASSIVE OBSERVERS are *gasp* WATCHING and PHOTOGRAPHING their murderous ways. OMG!! Bring in the army! Those poor wittle baby sealers don't want anyone WATCHING!! Oh, gee, there might even be TAUNTING and then what will they do??? Form an ARMED MOB to attack 2 or 3 people WATCHING!!!! Friggin' sissies.... Why don'cha let the Coast Guard tow a few MORE of their boats?? lmao!!

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:28 am
Ditto Dawn. I believe I already have posted solid arguments. Where are yours?
All you do is regurgitate government propoganda.
Summarize my argument?? What are you on? I didn't realise you were the chairperson on this debate!

Dawn Redskye (9)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:35 am
Oh Rebecca, I think your trying to be funny?
It's hard to picture those words coming from a full grown (supposedly mature) woman.
Do you know how dangerous it would be too dangerous. Idle people equals trouble.

There is nothing else to do out there. Farm? Log? They're on Canadian Shield.
And what good what subsidies do? Force them to sit around and do nothing?
This is why native reserves are so troubled.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:40 am
Alf, You regurgitate Anti-sealing propaganda.
What am I on? Grow up! Argue properly.

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:45 am
Haha you really are funny. YOU argue properly! I have work to do.........
I'll be back to check on your spellings and grammar later

Margaret Trainor (61)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 6:02 am
Dawn ...good for you,, Nice to hear some intelligent conversation in here.I agree I cannot believe those words came from an adult....Wow.
People who do not understand the realities of a Nation should not comment. Again if we were talking about chickens here no one would bat an eye...but we are talking about seals ....and about the pictures that the media chooses to show. People do what they do in order to survive different that anyone working in any other slaughter house doing their job so we the people will have food and clothing and such. That is the reality folks. If you are a vegan well then good for you ...some are some are not ...that is their choice. If you are vegan this hunt should not bother you any how these animals are not being eaten ...

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 6:35 am
All we, the members can do is to ignore, not acknowledge, and extend total silence when these people start their childish, attacking and meanspirited comments on any and all issues and article on Care 2.
The people that play their games have no power if we don't acknowledge them now can they?

Margaret Trainor (61)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 7:23 am
What is a shame about this posting is some members have been blocked ...that ends normal intelligent is ok that some disagree with what you believe. I dont always agree with things posted on here either but I would never just block some one to silence them ...that is very childish....I am sure I will be also blocked now ...I was surprised I havent been by now any how ...have fun on here and play nice

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 7:38 am
"""I am VEGAN as I don't want to contribute to ANY cruelty human or animal. What do YOU do to make this world a better place?""""

Just because you're Vegan doesn't mean you are a good person.

Dawn Redskye (9)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 7:58 am
Thank you :)
And Margaret, I agree that it is very childish.
I have a group with the main picture, an Inuit girl. The group is less than a week old.
A few individuals poked fun at my group, calling me 'homo-erectus' and calling the girl
a primitive being.
A few people have insulted me and blocked me quickly afterwards.
I guess they're afraid?
It stops them from hearing my opinion.
They are just shutting their eyes to block out opposition so they can feel high and mighty.

Alf, The last time I heard the response 'YOU argue properly' was when my little brother was 10.
I highly doubt you are 98, so l am led to believe that you are 13 at the most.


Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 8:06 am
The world is a big place with many people, many opinions and freedoms.
If a person blocks you what is it to you?
Why is it so important to force people to listen to you?
Be glad you have choices & rights.
Would you want someone to force you into choices and bend you to their will just to make yourself "feel" justified for your own words and actions?
If you don't like the options of blocking someone, then don't use it.
It's called individual choice and rights, freedom and be glad you have them. If it bothers you, and you wnat to force others to communicate with you, then your here for the wrong reasons.
Might does NOT make right, and use your time here for other things than harassing those that have the right and freedom of choice NOT to be your friends, and their right NOT to listen to what you have to say.


The right to discuss freely and openly, by speech, by the pen, by the press, all political questions, and to examine and animadvert (speak out) upon all political institutions, is a right so clear and certain, so interwoven with our other liberties, so necessary, in fact to their existence, that without it we must fall at once into depression or anarchy. To say that he who holds unpopular opinions must hold them at the peril of his life, and that, if he expresses them in public, he has only himself to blame if they who disagree with him should rise and put him to death, is to strike at all rights, all liberties, all protection of the laws, and to justify and extenuate all crimes.
-William Cullen Bryant

The right to discuss freely and openly, by speech, by the pen, by the press, all political questions, and to examine and animadvert (speak out) upon all political institutions, is a right so clear and certain, so interwoven with our other liberties, so necessary, in fact to their existence, that without it we must fall at once into depression or anarchy. To say that he who holds unpopular opinions must hold them at the peril of his life, and that, if he expresses them in public, he has only himself to blame if they who disagree with him should rise and put him to death, is to strike at all rights, all liberties, all protection of the laws, and to justify and extenuate all crimes.
-William Cullen Bryant

Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen.
-Warren Earl Burger

Remember that you are an actor in a drama of such sort as the Author chooses: if short, then in a short one; if long, then in a long one. If it be His pleasure that you should enact a poor man, or a cripple, or a ruler, or a private citizen, see that you act it well. For this is your business, to act well the given part. But to choose it belongs to Another.

All men and women are born, live suffer and die; what distinguishes us one from another is our dreams, whether they be dreams about worldly or unworldly things, and what we do to make them come about... We do not choose to be born. We do not choose our parents. We do not choose our historical epoch, the country of our birth, or the immediate circumstances of our upbringing. We do not, most of us, choose to die; nor do we choose the time and conditions of our death. But within this realm of choicelessness, we do choose how we live.
-Joseph Epstein

You have brains in your head,
you have feet in your shoes
you can steer yourself
in any direction you choose.
-Theodor Seuss Geisel

We try to make choices and do things with our career that make a positive impact. We want to have long-lasting careers, but we don't want to have to give in to the industry. We want to stand for what's right, and you can do that and still be relevant and still matter.
-Aja Graydon

Would ye both eat your cake and have your cake?"
This is commonly misquotes as "You can't have you're cake and eat it, too."
-John Heywood

That which you call your soul or spirit is your conciousness, and that which you call 'free will' is your mind's freedom to think or not, the only will you have, your only freedom, the choice that controls all the choices you make and determines your life and your character.
-Ayn Rand


Hans L (958)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 8:24 am
Hi Alf! Congratulations Scott is right i have never seen more comment than in this discussion! Only people who are realy offending you or other members should be blocked or suspended! But everybody who is following the rules should be able to post! I dont like to see chinese censorship here!

Margaret Trainor (61)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 8:29 am
IF a person blocks you not only can you no longer comment on this article but you cannot on any other article they post...

Dawn Redskye (9)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 8:48 am
Wolfweeps - I feel as though I was in the middle of a conversation and someone turned around and left.
It's not the people, it's the fact that they were rude and insensitive that upsets me.


Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 10:19 am
You seem to be posting your opinion quite well here regardless if people have blocked you.
It is called "choice".
I see you, everybody that has not blocked you sees your post.
So what is your problem? It is only the person who "has blocked you" chooses not to read nor communicate with
you. That is their right. They choose not to continue read what you post. It is their right. So you can say what you want to those those that wish to see what what you have to say.
You are not blocked from commenting on this article. I see you and everyone else who has not blocked you sees you.
Why do you wish to keep arguing with someone that does not wish to argue with you any longer?
What purpose does it serve but to satisfy your need to be heard by them? Be thankful that this site has thhe blocking option.
Because unless you have been a victim of trolls, stalkers and personal attacks you will never understand the need for the blocking option. It is their right to cease the chaos in which they want no more part of.
It's called having the right not to be attacked personally anymore.
If I wanted to be attacked I would go back to websites that allows this, and people end up getting hurt for no more reason than to satisfy an abusers ego.


Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 10:23 am
Well I'm sorry folks but I feel this argument is going round in circles. SOme people are not even bothering to read answers before repeating themselves like a broken down record. Others have resorted to playground tactics. I am not rude to anyone first, only once they've been rude to me. I have blocked the others now too as they are not listening and even if they were they are incapable of understanding as they have no empathy. So I'm out of here to go fight something more worthwhile than these people.
Troll 6 when you show up you can talk to yourself as you seem to like it so much or maybe you can't count past 5?

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 10:35 am

It is that the people you wish to argue with have chosen to move on to more isses and and other issues they care about. I too have moved on, and wish to sign my petitions and read my messages, note other articles and enjoy my days off in peace and avoid conflict. I don't fight with others, and when peole get tired of being beat over the head with a just simply move on and avoid the rock....*S*
iwsh you all well in your journey, and hope that we all can come together on different issues without the cruelty and attacks that serve nothing but an individuals ego and power trip. Life is too short to keep this going when there is so much to fighting for....*S*
Walk in beauty...for it shall follow you in kind.....

Brenda H (29)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 12:33 pm

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 2:33 pm
So anyone who has a differing opinion than the people who regularly post here is considered a troll right. Like if I say the sealers are actually good people who are caught up in a media sh!tstorm. They bear the brunt of misinformation and propaganda techniques used to garner donations to organizations that rely on using of people who have a genuine compassion for animals.

See there is no doubt that animal rights groups consist mainly of good intentioned people. The doubt is in my mind when I get to witness the seal hunt and see a totally different scene than what is described by people like Paul Watson and Rebbecca Aldworth.

Its the discrepancy between what was witnessed and what was read in their descriptions that causes my doubts about their true intentions. And maybe it comes down to differing viewpoints. If someone doesn't want animals killed period, then the seal hunt will be a bad thing no matter what the conditions are really like. If someone doesn't mind that the seals are killed but wants it to be done humanely and "properly" as possible, then has a chance to witness the activity and feels that it is being done properly, how can you go against this person's opinion.

Alf I (246)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 2:59 pm
Please do me a huge favour everyone and don't answer any more trolls. I have had enough of them for this week. BTW Paul Watson has offered to have a public debate with Hearn! Now that would be one to watch for sure but I doubt that coward Hearn will take him up.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 3:58 pm
Rebecca , sorry to bother you but I thought you might like to know I wrote to the Member of Parliament that my riding is under and I still have not heard from them and I also would like to know why my tax money can't be use in a more postive way.

Morgan Griffith (225)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 5:58 pm
Whew! the things that go on while I was away!! Alf, Rebecca, Wolfweeps (to name just a few) I have read your postings and am in agreement with you. I think the majority of the people on C2 support a decent life for all animals and not just the ones who are photogenic. I was a meat eater and have made the change to vegan as I could not stomach the way chickens, cows and other animals in the meat industry are treated and it doesn't matter if they lived "free" before being mutilated. I do believe it is a crime that the Farley Mowat was boarded it should be interesting to see what becomes of that incident. I also believe it is up to the government of the people to help solve local economic problems although most governments seem to do a particularly bad job of that. I am also disturbed that the seal hunt has to be done in complete secrecy. When the horses are rounded up for slaughter which we have all be fighting against for some years now it is pretty much out there for anyone to see. Nothing done in secrecy stays secret for long, we should all live our lives as if the whole world is watching because chances are they are. In closing in a past post I did state that I mourned for the sealers that were killed along with the seals a death that is wrong is just as wrong no matter the circumstances or how you feel about how the victim spends their days.

Past Member (0)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 6:05 pm
I agree with you Morgan...

Wolfweeps Pommawolf (251)
Wednesday April 16, 2008, 7:22 pm
Stop tracking.
Enough said.

Alcalyn Goodwin (2)
Saturday April 19, 2008, 7:31 pm

Helen Forsythe (91)
Sunday April 20, 2008, 8:46 am
The millions Ottawa spends subsidizing the seal hunt
By Murray Teitel

April 17, 2008

Whether you think killing seals is a bad thing or a good thing, whether you think it barbaric or humane, you should oppose Canada’s annual seal hunt.

According to Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) the justification for the hunt is to provide economic opportunities for Canada’s coastal communities. Last year, according to its Web site, this entire economic opportunity amounted to $12-million, the value of all seal pelts landed. They fetched on average $52 a pelt. According to evidence given to Parliament’s standing committee on fisheries and oceans on Nov. 6, 2006, half of that is eaten up by expenses, so we are talking, at most, $6-million that flowed to the sealers themselves: one-tenth of 1% of Newfoundland’s GDP. (This year it will be even less, because pelts of three to four week old “beaters” that make up 95% of the catch are selling for between $6 and $33.)

This $6-million costs Canadians at least 10 times as much and does so year after year. First of all, there is the cost of deploying the Canadian Coast Guard (CCG) to the seal hunt for seven weeks each year. Last year it involved 10 vessels, many of them icebreakers, helicopters and patrol planes. Nobody in government knows, even less wants to know, what this costs. DFO claims it costs nothing because the boats and aircraft are owned and the crews are on salary. Does it cost nothing to put out fires in Toronto because it owns the trucks and firefighters aren’t on piecework? Toronto hires firefighters and buys trucks based on the anticipated number and severity of fires. A significant part of what CCG does is rescue sealers. Some 24% of its 2003 fishing vessel rescues derived from this hunt. Without it, CCG’s annual budget could be significantly reduced. One hunt-deployed icebreaker, the Amundsen, costs $50,000 per day to operate in winter. Given DFO’s lack of transparency, one can only estimate the annual CCG cost attributable to the hunt at $5-million.

Secondly, every year some disaster occurs. Last year, it was heavy ice that trapped sealers for days on end. Some even ran out of cigarettes! DFO calculated the extra CCG costs due to heavy ice at $3.41-million. It also paid $7.9-million to owners of boats damaged by ice. This year, it is the drowning of four sealers and the near drowning of two while being rescued by CCG. This resulted in the cost of an unsuccessful week-long 2,800 nautical square mile search for one of the drowned and his boat involving patrol planes, helicopters and three icebreakers. The inevitable lawsuits and legal bills will easily cost more than $6-million.

Thirdly, millions are spent every year trying to counter bans on the importation of seal products. Our NAFTA partners and four European countries have imposed bans. Four countries have announced intentions to do so. Italy and Luxembourg have suspended imports. The European Parliament resolved to impose an EU-wide ban. The Council of Europe has called on its 46 members to do so.

Canada has taken Holland and Belgium to the World Trade Organization in Geneva. Aside form being terribly expensive, it jeopardizes a relationship with two countries with which Canada has a trade surplus. $5.2-million of raw seal products constitutes less than 1/1,000 of what we export to Europe.

The DFO, since at least 2003, has been flying high-level delegations to Europe to argue against the bans. Last year, there were at least six such junkets. For example, on March 27, 2007, a 17-person delegation was dispatched to the British Parliament for a meeting attended by only five British MPs. Last month, seven Canadians, including Loyola Sullivan, ambassador for fisheries conservation, the Premier of Nunavut and a Newfoundland Cabinet minister flew to four European capitals for a week.

Unfortunately, they seem to use a travel agent who excels at finding the most expensive fares available. When Mr. Sullivan flew on seal business to five European capitals this January, the airfare alone was $10,270.80. The DFO’s Kevin Stringer flew to Paris for $4,459.65 on Sept. 5, 2007. Of course, this is nothing compared with the $16,025.25 spent on airfare to Australia and New Zealand by the DFO’s director general of economic analysis whom I wish would do an economic analysis of his own expense accounts. With hotels, wines, meals and support staff, this adds up.

They have as much chance of stemming this tide as Germany did of stopping the Allies after D Day. The battle is lost. But because of ideological fanaticism they keep fighting, secure in the delusion that the Canadian taxpayer, like the cod, is an inexhaustible resource that will forever fund this foolishness that only benefits the high-end European tourism industry.

Fourthly, there is the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) led boycott that is largely responsible for the inflation adjusted $465-million drop in the value of Canadian exports of snow crabs — the main seafood export to the United States from Canada’s sealing provinces — since April, 2005. The value of 2007 snow crab exports is 44% lower than it was in 2004, the year prior to the boycott.

HSUS has to date persuaded almost 3,600 U.S. businesses to participate, including heavy hitters Publix (annual sales $24-billion), Whole Foods ($7-billion), WinCo Foods, Lowe’s Foods, Harris Teeter ($3-billion each) and smaller, seafood-driven ones like Legal Sea Foods ($400-million). Sealing creates less than 1% of the value of the sealing provinces’ fishery. Sacrifice 99% for the sake of 1%. Now there’s a business plan!

Finally, there is the cost of the DFO seal-hunt bureaucracy, which alone has to cost more than the sealers earn: license issuers, accountants, typists, file clerks, inspectors, quota setters, regulation drafters, “scientists,” “statisticians,” “economic analysts,” speech writers, media relations officers, anti-boycott propagandists, writers of replies to angry letters, arrangers of tours of European journalists (when the seal hunt is not taking place), all in the service of what DFO says is 5,000 to 6,000 (more like 2,000, I believe) people averaging $1,000 a year from killing 275,000 seals. There is a conflict of interest in the DFO having jurisdiction over the Coast Guard. If it were controlled by the Minister of Defence, he’d immediately see that for what he is spending on the seal hunt, he could outfit an artillery regiment.

Enough already. This is a colossal waste of taxpayers’ money. And the sealers? Sealers should prefer these monies be used to train them for jobs in the 21st-century economy, rather than to preserve them as relics of a hunter/gatherer one.
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