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SECRET VIDEO: On Israel, Romney Trashes Two-State Solution


US Politics & Gov't  (tags: Romney, Israel, Palestine, elections, ethics, dishonesty, politics, propaganda, republicans, news, media, lies )

Carrie
- 2469 days ago - motherjones.com
At a private fundraiser, the GOP candidate calls Middle East peace "almost unthinkable" and says he would "kick the ball down the field."



   

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Comments

Cynthia Davis (340)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 3:23 am
So Mitt's idea is to sit back and do nothing?
 

Carol H (229)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 4:51 am
thanks Carrie, noted
 

Laura H (950)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 10:40 am
Ignore the problem and maybe it will work itself out...how the hell can anyone vote for this clown?!
 

. (0)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 11:55 am
Where did you read that Romney will sit back and do nothing? I read the dame article, and in no way got this impression.
What I did read is that Romney is not in favor of giving the Palestinians what they want.
 

David C (75)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 1:39 pm
I wonder if Robmey is hoping for more conflict for he and the evangelicals anticipated apocalypse????
No ideas.....no plans.....no truths.........please, if there is a God, don't let anyone vote GOP
 

Barb K (1685)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 7:00 pm
I reported the SPAMMERS Carrie. Romney DEFINITELY WILL NOTTTTTTT BE GETTING MY VOTE!! Thanks, my friend!!
 

. (7)
Tuesday September 18, 2012, 9:03 pm
Noted, thanks!
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Wednesday September 19, 2012, 6:54 am
No surprise.The man who had been to the Zionist entity to collect money from Zionist will certainly bow at their feet to help him be elected through the support of the Zionist American lobbies including AIPAC which controls not only US congress but the white house as well.The denial of Palestinians rights will certainly be the main factor not only for instability in the middle east but all the violence against USA around the world.
At the end the Palestinians will agree to a ONE state solution.A democratic state where all citizens including Palestinians have equal civil and political rights.Such state would be named after the geographical name where it exists, namely PALESTINE.That will be great and in few years the Palestinians will be the majority who govern according to the well known democracy game.Won't this be wonderful.Good for Romney,who won't be elected,Good for Netanyahu too.
Thanks Carrie for this post.
 

Angelika R (143)
Wednesday September 19, 2012, 5:05 pm
Thanks Carrie for another valuable post here. WHO'S ROMNEY anyways?? He's been pretty busy downgrading himself to a zero so that's what he will get.
Abdessalam, exactly that has already been predicted and it's Israel's own fault as it is destroying itself piece by piece.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Wednesday September 19, 2012, 6:36 pm
Why on Earth Palestinian Arabs would want peace? Now they are in the middle of the world attention, world donors run annual conferences where western governments pour them money, they milk UN through their exclusive "refugee" agency to make themselves World Best Paid Refugees, with the title passing from father to son unlimited...

No other refugee group enjoy such rights! And someone expects Palestinian Arabs to leave in peace with Israel and start earning a living??? Where, is arid Gaza, under Islamic rulers and without Israeli technologies? Or, in the West Bank, trading with Jordan? Without world money pouring in anymore?

Palestiinian Arabs are no stupid. They are paid to be cry babies claiming their victimhood. Without that victimhood, they will be as hungry as Egyptians, and the world won't give a damn and a dime.

 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday September 20, 2012, 6:16 am
Bob A.
Again let me assure you that Palestinians will get a state called Palestine.I am sure that this disappoints you but what can we say.The truth always prevail. I am afraid the hatred you are filled with against Palestinians will explode one day.Israel is a self destroying entity and is heading towards suicide.Israeli activists themselves say this.Did you hear about Yuri Avnery? Did you ready any of his posts.I invite you to read this may be it will make your mind more stable than it is has been for a long time and is still until now.

Thou Shalt Not Kill (Thyself)

By Uri Avnery

February 18, 2012 "Information Clearing House" --- AFTER THE founding of Israel, God appeared to David Ben-Gurion and told him: “You have created a state for my chosen people in my holy land. This merits a great reward. Tell me what you wish, and I will grant it.”

Ben-Gurion answered: “Almighty God, I wish that every person in Israel shall be wise, honest and a member of the Labor Party.”

“Dear me,” said God, “That is too much even for the Almighty. But I decree that every Israeli shall be two of the three.”

Since then, if a wise Israeli is a member of the Labor party, he is not honest. If an honest Israeli is a member of the Labor party, he is not wise. If he is wise and honest, he is not a member of the Labor Party.

THIS JOKE was popular in the 1950s. After 1967, another much less funny formula took its place.

It goes like this: many Israelis ask God for their state to be Jewish and democratic, and that it will include the entire country between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. That is too much even for the Almighty. So he asks them to choose between a state that is Jewish and democratic but only in part of the country, or a state in all the country that is Jewish but not democratic, or a state in the entire country that is democratic but not Jewish. To which I would add a fourth option: A Jewish and democratic state in the entire country, but only after driving out all the Arabs – some 5.5 million at this point, and growing quickly.

This is the choice facing us today as it did almost 45 years ago. It has only become more sharply defined.

For any foreseeable future, the fourth alternative can be excluded. The circumstances which led, in 1948, to the expulsion of more than half the Palestinian people from the territory that became Israel were unique, and not likely to return in the coming decades. So we must deal with the present demographic reality.

The current government is determined to prevent any peace that would compel it to give up any part of the occupied territories (22% of pre-1948 Palestine). There is no one around who would compel them to do so.

What remains?

A state that is either non-democratic or non-Jewish.

As things stand, the first possibility is certain to be realized, or, rather, to realize itself. This needs no conscious decision, since it is the default situation that already exists de facto.

This means, to use the popular catch phrase, an apartheid state: a state in which every instrument of power is in the hands of the Jewish-Israeli majority (some 6.5 million people), with limited rights for the 1.5 million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. The Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip, some four million, are granted no rights whatsoever - neither national, nor human nor civil.

The present state of “temporary” occupation can last forever, and is therefore ideal for this purpose. However, a future Israeli government, an even more nationalist one, could change the formal situation by annexing these territories to Israel. That would make, in practice, no difference.

As many Israelis see it, this situation could go on forever. The official slogan is: “We have no partner for peace”.

But can it really last? The Palestinian population throughout the country is growing rapidly, soon enough it will constitute the majority. The idealists who embrace this as the “One-state Solution” believe that the Apartheid State will slowly turn into a “state of all its citizens”.

If, after decades of oppression, civil war, atrocities and other plagues this really came into being, it would quickly turn into a Palestinian state, with a Jewish minority, like the Whites in present South Africa. It would be a negation of the whole Zionist enterprise, whose core purpose was to have one place in the world where Jews would be a majority. Most Jewish Israelis would probably emigrate.

For an Israeli, this would mean national suicide. Yet it is the inevitable outcome if the state continues on its present course.

IF A person wants to kill himself, as is his right, he has many ways to do so: poisoning, shooting, hanging, jumping from the roof etc. As a state, Israel also has several options.

Apart from the external ticking bomb (the “One-state Solution”), Israel also has an internal ticking bomb, which may be even more dangerous. Like the first option, the second one is already well on its way. If the first option depends at least partly on outside factors, the second is entirely self-made.

When Israel came into being, Orthodox Jews were a small minority. Since Ben-Gurion needed them for his coalition, he gave them some privileges which looked cheap to him. The Orthodox got their own education system, financed by the state, and were exempted from army service.

Some 60 years later, these privileges have grown to gigantic dimensions. To compensate for the lives lost in the Holocaust, and to increase the Jewish population, the Israeli government has encouraged natural increase by generous children’s subsidies. Since the religious of all shades have reproduced much more than any other Israelis (except Muslim Arabs), their part in the population has grown by leaps and bounds.

Orthodox families generally have 8-10 children. All these go to religious schools, where they study exclusively religious texts and don’t acquire any skills useful for working in a modern society. They don’t need them, since they do not work at all, devoting their entire lives to the study of the Talmud. They don’t need to interrupt their studying of the dead texts, because they don’t serve in the army.

If these were marginal phenomena in the early days of the state, they are now rapidly leading to a national emergency. Right from the beginning, almost all government coalitions have relied on the religious parties, because no party has ever won an overall majority in the Knesset. Almost all governing parties had to bribe their religious partners with ever increasing subsidies for children and adults, thus encouraging the growth of a population which neither serves in the army nor does any work.

The absence of the Orthodox from the labor force has severe effects on the economy, attested to by world financial institutions. Their absence from the army – as well as the absence of the Arab citizens, who are not drafted for obvious reasons – means that soon almost half the male population will not serve. This compels all the others to serve three full years, and then to do reserve duty for many more years.

Also, very soon, half the first grade pupils in Israel will be religious children, destined for a life without work, without paying taxes or serving in the army – all this paid for by the taxes of the diminishing number of the non-Orthodox.

Recently, after deepening unrest between religious and non-religious in Bet Shemesh, 25 km west of Jerusalem, the secularists demanded that the town be divided into two, one half Orthodox and the other secular. The Interior Minister, himself a leader of an Orthodox party, rejected this outright. As he candidly explained. since the Orthodox do not work and cannot pay municipal taxes, they cannot sustain a town of their own. They need the secular to work and pay.

This grotesque situation exists throughout the state. One can calculate when the whole edifice will come crashing down. International financial institutions as well as Israeli experts foretell disaster. Yet our political system does not make any change possible. The hold of the religious parties is as strong as ever.

Another method of suicide.

A THIRD method is less dramatic. Israel is rapidly becoming a state in which normal people just may not want to live.

In his monumental opus on the Crusades, the late British historian Steven Runciman maintained that the Crusader state did not collapse because of its military defeat, but because too many of its inhabitants just packed up and went back to Europe. Though many of them belonged to the 4th and even 8th generation of crusaders, the Crusader state had lost its attraction for them. The state of perpetual war and inner stagnation drove them out. The state collapsed when many more went away than came to join.

The Crusaders felt a stronger sense of belonging to Christendom than to the local Kingdom of Jerusalem. Today, many Israelis feel themselves first of all as Jews, belonging to a world-wide people, and only in second place Israelis.

That makes emigration easier.

A state without democracy, without equality, condemned by itself to an endless war, dominated by religious fanatics, with the gap between the abject poor and a handful of immensely rich growing from year to year – such a state will look less and less attractive to bright young people, who can easily find a better life elsewhere, while retaining their Jewish identity.

That, too, is a kind of national suicide.

I AM not, by nature, a prophet of doom. Quite the contrary.

We can easily avert all these dangers. But first of all we must recognize them and see where they are leading us.

I believe that the people of Israel – the Israeli nation – have the will to survive. But in order to survive, they must wake up from their apathetic stupor and change course – turning towards peace based on the two-state solution, separating the state from religion and building a new social order.

In the Jewish religion, suicide is a sin. It would be ironic if future historians were to conclude that the “Jewish State” committed suicide.

Uri Avnery is an Israeli peace activist and a former Knesset member. He is the founder of Gush Shalom. http://zope.gush-shalom.org



 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday September 20, 2012, 6:42 am
On his blog post just five days ago Yuri Avnery wrote about the Palestinians.I know what he wrote will,certainly disappoint Bob A.when he reads few words about the Palestinians spirit and the Palestinian society.Here is just one paragraph of what he wrote.
"DESPITE THE economic troubles, the picture of the Palestinians as a helpless, pitiable victim is far removed from reality. Israelis may like to think so, as well as pro-Palestinian sympathizers around the world. But the Palestinian spirit is UNBROKEN. Palestinian society is vibrant and self-reliant. Most Palestinians are determined to achieve a state of their own."

Are you disappointed Bob ? Great.
 

Abdessalam Diab (145)
Thursday September 20, 2012, 6:49 am
BOB A. You want to know more about the Palestinians and Netanyahu/Romney pact.Read this "Sooner or later, and probably sooner rather than later, the wrath of the Palestinian poor will change direction. Instead of blaming the Palestinian Authority, they will turn against their real oppressor: the occupation.
Binyamin Netanyahu may stick to the illusion that all is quiet on the Palestinian front, so that he can concentrate on his efforts to get Mitt Romney elected and frighten Iran. After all, when Palestinians are protesting against Palestinians, that’s OK. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is frozen. No problem.

But this illusion is, well, an illusion. In our conflict, nothing is ever frozen.

Not only are the settlement activities going on steadily - if quietly - but on the Palestinian side, too, things are moving. Pressures are building up. At some time, they will explode.

Disappointed Bob ? Great.
 

Alexander Werner (53)
Thursday September 20, 2012, 2:56 pm
Abdessalam, looking what happens to your own country, Egypt, which once was the leader of the Arab nation, is now starving and mobs attacking Christian businesses. What makes you think that Israel, where life style is pretty good, is self-destroying? There are more merits to say that Egypt is self-destroying. I don't know how well do you fit into the Muslim Brotherhood structure, and, especially, how do women in your family feel about MB, what is going on is pretty rough and scary.

I know who is Uri Avnery for quite a long time. And you know why the time is long? Because nobody is there to kill him, or show "rage", burn some embassy and kill a passer-by. In comparison, Arabs killed American ambassador, destroyed property and made a commotion in UN because some moron put cheap movie on YouTube to make a few bucks.

Do I hate Palestinian Arabs, or Arabs per se? Why should I? Palestinian Arabs got lucky, they built a great system to milk UN, they became World Best Paid Refugees, they manage to pass this "refugee" title as an eternal inheritance, and for as long as there are enough fools to pay for the scam, I can't do much. But no hate from me, buddy.

Palestinian Arabs in the West Bank do quite better than Gaza Arabs, which, in turn, make it a bit better than the half of Egyptian Arabs. How did you manage to come to a conclusion that some occupation is at fault, and how do you see this occupation in Gaza, where not a single Jew remains?

Abdessalam, I am not disappointed. And I think Palestinian Arabs already exploded everything they had, or are exploding now. Security fence keeps suicide bombers and car thieves at bay. Rockets are answered by rockets. This will continue for another XXX years.
 

Angelika R (143)
Thursday September 20, 2012, 3:04 pm
Let's keep it peaceful friends, please. Abdessalam, thanks so much for posting peae activist legend Uri Avnery here, it is good to read him again. Had stopped this for long, should pick up on it again. I used to read everything from him years back when he used to "fire" on Olmert and write about the Lebanon war in 2006.
 

Stephen Brian (23)
Thursday September 20, 2012, 10:44 pm
A few details:

First, I think that as matters stand, Romney is unfortunately correct. One side will never accept nor seek a peace where one side disappears as a nation. The other side will never seek nor accept a peace where neither side disappears. Two states can be established, but this would not actually lead to peace.

Second, Mother Jones screws up its science-reporting here. A dirty-bomb cannot be produced from medical waste. The isotopes used in medicine have half-lives which are very sensitive to temperature. When frozen, they keep for a while, but at body-temperature, which is not far from a summer's day in the region, they have a half-life of minutes. In a single day, the radiation would disappear. If somebody inhales, ingests, or takes in, in any way, the radioactive particles, they will do little or no harm at all. This leads to the interesting question of why, exactly, it would screw up in this way. Was it an error, or did it resort to dishonesty to push a narrative? It would be worth checking Mother Jones' other errors for a pattern.
 
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