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Venezuela's Chavez Forgives Haiti's Debt

World  (tags: Haiti, USA, u.s., imperialism, capitalism, oppression, exploitation, sweatshops, impoverishment, poverty, natural disaster, earthquake, emergency, relief, A.L.B.A., ALBA, Cuba, Venezuela, socialism, Bolivarian Alliance for the Peoples of O )

- 3405 days ago -
Hugo Chavez said that Petrocaribe, Venezuela's cut-rate energy program, will forgive Haiti's debt (US$295 million, about 1/3 of Haiti's global foreign debt of US$1 billion). ALBA countries criticised the excessive first world military presence in Haiti.


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Tomoko Harris (83)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 7:43 am
Of course he can, what with all that oil money. ;)

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 7:57 am
The USA is much much much much much richer than Venezuela is, and many other first world countries are richer then Venezuela is.

But the USA and other first world countries have given almost nothing to the people of Haiti: mostly just a military occupation, to ensure the continuation of the U.S./Canadian/French puppet regime in Haiti, to prevent egalitarian and independent development of Haiti, for U.S./Canadian/French corporate exploitation of the people of Haiti, paying workers less than $2 per day in sweatshop factories, while leaving the other 50% unemployed!!!

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 7:59 am
Indeed, Venezuela is a Third World country. Dozens of countries are richer than Venezuela. If I name them all will you take back your snide, cynical remark, and say something positive about what Venezuela has done for the people of Haiti, Tomoko Harris?

Yvonne Mendes Siblini (218)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 8:10 am
how nice!

Scott Z (23)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 8:12 am
This is a good thing for Haiti but I wonder if the people of Venezuela can really afford such a move by Chavez.
Perhaps he should have passed the hat around to the other members of Petrocaribe first and then made up the difference.

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 9:17 am
Excellent post Simon.

I would imagine Venezuelans are right on with forgiving the debt to Haiti. It's very gratifying so see that several groups and organizations have launched petition drives reqquesting the U.S. forgive the debt too.

Scott: What is your position, should the U.S. forgive the debt?


Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 9:26 am
Hi Scott,

you wrote: "This is a good thing for Haiti but I wonder if the people of Venezuela can really afford such a move by Chavez.
Perhaps he should have passed the hat around to the other members of Petrocaribe first and then made up the difference."

First of all, the people of Venezuela are making a revolution, through which the majority of the population (the working class) have improved their lives immensely, and are continuing to do so:

They have doubled the minimum wage (in real terms);

they have got free medical care by doctors in the barrios (poor areas);

they have ended illiteracy by U.N. standards (by teaching hundreds of thousands of adults how to read and write, in a population of only 26 million);

they have got free education at all levels including tertiary education;

they have free daily meals at school for all poor children (thus encouraging huge numbers of children to continue highschool;

who before the revolution dropped out of school to work to support themselves);

they have doubled the number of people in education;

they have subsidsed, low-cost food, sold at supermarkets to millions of working class people;

they have got increased workers' rights, peasants' rights, womens' rights, Indigenous rights, and Afro-Venezuelan Rights;

they have increased working class control of labour unions (which were more corrupt, and under bosses' control in the past);

they have increase working class control of the media, including government support and encouragement to many community radio stations and some community TV stations;

they have created a new, very egalitarian and progressive people's constitution (the most democratic in the world!), created by popular consultation and approved by referendum;

they have largely changed representative democracy to direct democracy at the local government level;

they have increased the number of democractic worker-controlled cooperatives and worker-co-managed corporations;

they are diversifying their economy, so that Venezuela will produce all of its own food and many other important products that they use;

and they are continuing their working class gains, achieving more and more things! : )

In comparison, Haiti is full of desperately poor people, with 50% unemployment. The people of Venezuela are much better off in comparison, and they can benefit by helping their poorer neighbours - e.g. it is a way to promote their revolution, to reduce any international support for U.S. aggression against Venezuela's egalitarian and democratic revolution.

Hmmm... the other members of PetroCaribe are the Caribbean countries (Third World countries) that Venezuela sells oil to, on terms that are favourable to those countries. It is a solidarity trade deal, by which Venezuela helps out fellow Third World countries, receiving goods that the people of Venezuela use, such as food, and cutting out the speculators and other parasitic corporate middle-men who take a cut in alot of capitalist trade.

Not only do the people of those Caribbean oil-buying countries benefit, but also the people of Venezuela benefit: they gain goodwill from other Caribbean countries, reducing the USA's potential to get allies in aggression against Venezuela. And this Venezuelan program enables those fellow Caribbean countries to develop (economically, education-wise, and so on), which strengthens those Caribbean trading partners and friends of Venezuela, enabling increased regional mutual support, mutual defence, integration and unity, based on the principle of solidarity (different to the European Union's capitalist exploitation model of unity).

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 9:27 am
Thankyou for your kind words, Luisa : )

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 9:33 am
Oh, I forgot to mention: another victory that the people of Venezuela have achieved in their revolution, is land redistribution:

the compulsory government buying of land from rich people who have excess idle land (and ending of government land leases to those rich people), to give to poor rural workers who have little or no land. Huge numbers of landless rural workers have been able to start their own farms this way! (Most of them already have farming skills, but never had their own land before the revolution.)

Joycey B (750)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 9:47 am
Great post. Noted with thanks Simon.

Tim Redfern (581)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 9:54 am
You cannot currently send a star to Simon because you have done so within the last week.

Tim Redfern (581)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 9:57 am
This news does not especially surprise me.
From all I've read about Hugo Chavez, he is a
devoutly Christian man who is most serious about
his beliefs and convictions, and forgiving Haiti's
debt to Venezuela was indeed a most Christ-like thing to do.

Thanks so much, Simon!

Luisa Fox (144)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 9:58 am
Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia boycott meeting of donors to Haiti...

FTA...Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia boycotted a meeting of donors to Haiti in Montreal yesterday to protest the U.S. military’s presence in the Caribbean, the German news service Deutsche Presse Agentur reported.

Former Cuban President Fidel Castro wrote yesterday in the official Cuban newspaper Granma that U.S. troops have “occupied” Haiti, and said the transport of U.S. soldiers prevented several countries from bringing doctors and medical supplies to aid Haiti.
“Send doctors, not soldiers,” Castro wrote.
“The U.S. government is taking advantage of a humanitarian tragedy to militarily take over Haiti,” Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Jan. 20.

A French cabinet official, Alain Joyandet, said Jan. 19 in Brussels that the role of the U.S. in Haiti should be clarified. “It’s about helping Haiti, not occupying Haiti,” Joyandet said in an interview with French radio station Europe 1...

Past Member (0)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 11:13 am
I very much doubt this news makes it to most mainstream media. Not newsworthy. As it won't help keep up the "evil" image of Chavez and Venezuela that they worked so hard on!

Great Post Simon, learnt so much today. :)

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 11:31 am
Good on you everyone for noting this article and posting positive comments here! : )

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 11:32 am
Oh, and thankyou for the information, Luisa : )

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 11:34 am
Ah, yeah, I know what you mean, about the mainstream capitalist media, Yasser ; )

And thankyou for your kind words : )

Yvonne White (229)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 1:01 pm
I really like Hugo!:) He really cares about the poor!

Elsa ED (231)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 2:04 pm
That is so cool. Thanks Simon. Lets hope the rest of the world will follow in his footsteps. Kutos to Hugo.

. (0)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 3:11 pm
Thanks for sharing

Charley H (0)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 5:22 pm

Simon Wood (207)
Wednesday January 27, 2010, 8:18 pm
You're welcome, Elsa and Vanessa : )

Good on you everyone for noting to promote this article! : )

And good on you for your comments of acknowledgement of the kind of debt forgiveness generosity that we want other countries like the USA to follow!!! ; )

Naoko i (257)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 1:11 am
Noted. Thanks for posting, Simon. And I'm almost sure that the PEOPLE of Venezuela are proud of and happy about the decision of Chavez.

Simon Wood (207)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 2:30 am
: ) You're welcome, Naoko : ) And thankyou for posting your kind words here : )

Yeah, I too reckon the people of Venezuela are proud of and happy about the decision of Chavez. He is famous for having his ear to the street mostof the time. However, if the people of Venezuela prefer to elect a different president (and government), they have that option, in future elections.

Jessica C (178)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 6:38 am
Good man, President Chavez!

Simon Wood (207)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 7:12 am
: )

pete O (242)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 7:37 am
Thanks Simon. Once again Hugo has shown that, a good socialist model enables their leaders. Via Chavez and the wonderful people of Venezuela

Simon Wood (207)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 8:33 am
You're welcome, Pete O : )

Good on you for noting the article and posting a comment of acknowledgement here! : ), que viva!

patricia lasek (317)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 8:58 am
Simon, I respect your opinions. The USA has already forgiven Hait's debt and the monies it now sends are in the from of GRANTS. We are urging Pres. Obama to put pressure on other contries to also forgive the Haitians debts to them. I don't see that as being wrong.

Simon Wood (207)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 10:28 am
Hi Patricia, I have seen no evidence for the claim you made that "The USA has already forgiven Hait's debt and the monies it now sends are in the from of GRANTS."

My emails from the ONE campaign don't mention it. ONE only speaks of continuing the campaign to get the G7 (including the USA) to forgive Haiti's debt.

If the USA really had frgiven Haiti's debt, it would be front page news and trumpeted in the capitalist media, including in Care2, for days. I saw and heard NOTHING of it. I only saw and heard about the campaign (which I participated in) to try to get Obama to forgive Haiti's debt. Apparently the USA has not forgiven Haiti's debt.

Indeed, the IMF, in which the USA has more power than any other country, has recently lent U.S.$100 million more money to Haiti, increasing Haiti's IMF debt to U.S.$265 million. In other words, until now, the USA and its fellow first world controllers of the IMF have INCREASED Haiti's debt to the USA and other first world countries.

Elsa ED (231)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 1:44 pm
I have to agree with you on that one Simon no where has it been written the
US has forgiven Haiti's debt. It would be front page news for sure. In all my travels about never has it been said anywhere the US has forgiven Haiti's debt all I see is how they continually do things to under mind Haiti's progress. Along with the UN and a few other countries. In recent years kidnapping their president comes to mind off the top of my head. He was attempting to help the poor in his country the same as Chevez has been doing and if the US could topple Chevez they most certainly would.

patricia lasek (317)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 2:11 pm
Maybe I'm wrong. I went to this site and here is the info I got. Check it out yourselves. If the link doesn't work, just google JUBILEEUSA . It was very informative.

On June 30th, Haiti reached “completion point” in the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries program cancelling $1.2 billion of debt.

This means that $1.2 billion in external debt owed by the impoverished island nation to bilateral and multilateral lenders including the IMF, World Bank, and US government has been cancelled. The Boards of the World Bank and IMF met yesterday to formally approve Haiti’s debt stock cancellation under HIPC and the Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative.


MsR S (189)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 2:54 pm
Good news!

Elsa ED (231)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 5:49 pm
Pat I stand corrected: But Haiti still owed Taiwan $91 million. Ma Ying-jeou, the president of Taiwan, today signaled that the country will forgive the debt. This is also good news.
The( IADB) Inter-American Development Bank still to forgive $440 million
The IADB forgave $511 million in debt last year, still leaving Haiti owing it more than $440 million. The bank this week approved $128 million in grants -- and the board of governors is convening to discuss further debt cancellations.
IMF to Haiti: Freeze Public Wages
Many are working on getting the IMF to knock off the conditions of the loan. But Haiti regardless is still in Debt to them. I personally can't abide the IMF they have destroyed many a country with their so called conditions.
The World Banks is just as bad.

Elsa ED (231)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 6:00 pm
IMF Executive Board Approves US$114 Million in Aid to Haiti
After a whole lot of bitching from people around the world we got this. out of them. They were al ready to cahs in on Haitis disaster however so don't give them too much credit for being nicey nice.

Simon Wood (207)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 7:11 pm
Thenkyou for this information Elsa ED : )

Yeah, we have had to engage in alot of public pressure on the largely U.S.-controlled IMF before they finally agreed to forgive part of Haiti's debt to them. However, if the IMF forgave U.S.$120 million of Haiti's debt to them, then the IMF is still expecting Haiti to pay the other U.S.$145 million plus interest. (And remember, many Third World countries that are paying back loans, end up paying double or more compared with what they borrowed, because of the effect of interest rates. Those loans are often highly exploitative, and are one of the ways that the first world plunders the peopleof teh Third World.)

Simon Wood (207)
Thursday January 28, 2010, 7:51 pm
Hmmm... I just re-read what Patricia wrote. Hmmm....

I also read the Jubilee article.

Yep, it is as I thought: Haiti still owes more than U.S.$700 million to other countries (i.e. U.S.$1 billion minus U.S.$295 million because Venezuela's government forgave all of Haiti's debt to Venezuela), and that is continually increasing because of interest.

And this U.S.$700 million in debt includes money owed to the USA, at least through international financial institutions which are largely U.S.-controlled, such as the Inter-American Development Bank....

patricia lasek (317)
Friday January 29, 2010, 6:09 am
I beg to differ with you. The USA does not control these institutions. In the World Bank they do have the Presidency seat which is held by Robert Zoellick who is an American. There are 24 Executive Directors of the Bank, 5 of whom are from the USA, Japan, Germany, France and the UK. The 19 other seats are held by various countries.
In the IMF, the USA has a total of 371,743 which comprises 16.77% of the total votes which is by no means a majority.
In the Inter-American Development Bank, Luis Alberto Moreno from Columbia is the President. The Board of Governors is comprised of 48 members. Of these 26 are borrowing members all in South and Central America. They control 50.02% of the vote. There are 22 NON-borrowing members with 49.98% of the vote. They include the USA, anada. Japan, Israel, Republic of Korea,China and 16 European countries. Approximately 65% of the lending volume goes to Argentina, the Bahamas,Barbados, Brazil, Chile, Mexico,Trinidad & Tobago,Uruguay and Venezuala.
No matter how you work the numbers, the Usa does not CONTROL any of these institutions. I may not agree with you but I will defend your right to your opinion.

Lorraine E (40)
Friday January 29, 2010, 10:15 pm
I kinda like this Chavez guy. First he outed Satan/"W," and now this. :~)

Simon Wood (207)
Friday January 29, 2010, 11:30 pm
Hi Patricia, ave read that the USA has more power in those institutions than that - perhaps due to the power of U.S. influence to determine how the other members vote.

Hmmm... even what you have said is quite damning of the USA: the presidency of the "World Bank" is held by the USA, plus the presidency of the "Inter-American Development Bank" is held by a neo-colony of the USA: Colombia.

Simon Wood (207)
Friday January 29, 2010, 11:31 pm
I like Chavez him too, Djeilan : ) He generally puts the will of the majority of Venezuelan voters (progressive and egalitarian, politically conscious people) into action : )

Mary P (177)
Friday January 29, 2010, 11:58 pm
Thankyou for another great article Simon :) You never fail to inspire people to probe further for the truth.

Mary P (177)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 12:00 am
You cannot currently send a star to Simon because you have done so within the last week.

Simon Wood (207)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 12:41 am
Thankyou for your kind comment, Mary : )

Simon Wood (207)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 12:42 am
I mean, thankyou for your kind commentS, Mary ; )

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 6:56 am

The move by Hugo Chavez to help Haiti is a clear humanitarian effort to ease the suffering of Haitians and sends a message to Washington that contrary to claims in the media about democratic/humanitarian values it fails to prove this through practical measures in real life.


Simon Wood (207)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 7:38 am

By the way, it's great to see you posting here, Luisa : )

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 7:43 am
Thanks Simon.

I've been a bit busy, still am. I assure you, I haven't forgotten about Haiti nor will many of us.


Simon Wood (207)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 8:30 am
: )

Maghiva Rivero (1)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 5:04 pm
Well, that’s one of the few things I have to acknowledge to the man. Still, the condition of Venezuela is far from beautiful. I live in Venezuela, so I must deal with it every single day: unemployment, poverty, constant murders, pollution…and a halo of mediocrity that pervades those who are in the government and also those who are against it.

The situation in Venezuela is not as good and beautiful as its being portrayed in these comments. Still, I won’t get myself involved in a debate. I agree with this decision, and, having said that, take my leave.

Simon Wood (207)
Saturday January 30, 2010, 8:15 pm
Hi Maghiva. The condition of Venezuela is much more democratic and egalitarian than the condition of most other Third World countries.

Previous in Venezuela (capitalist governments) created those problems that you mentioned (unemployment, poverty, constant murders, pollution), and continued those problems, the current democratic socialist government, as a government of the people, doing what the people want, is solving those problems.

Unemployment? In Venezuela, the percent of people unemployed is the lowest, or one of the lowest, in Latin America and the Caribbean!

Poverty? In Venezuela, the percent of people in poverty is the lowest, or one of the lowest, in Latin America and the Caribbean!

Pollution? The government of Venezuela became democratic socialist, it reduced its rate of oil production and sales, in cooperation with other OPEC countries. The government has also supported public transport more than previous governments. The government joined the countries of A.L.B.A. in promoting the most environmentally-friendly proposals at the climate change conference in Copenhagen. The government is currently engaging in a campaign to reduce electricity use in Venezuela, including by regulating electricity use at night by corporations, and by giving huge numbers of free energy-efficient lightglobes to people. Etc..

As for murders, yes the murder rate in Venezuela is high - and for several reasons: one is the fact that the previous capitalist governments and the corporations and capitalist economic system and capitalist media have created the conditions for violence: they left Veenzuela with high exploitation, inequality and poverty. They left Veenzuela with media that promotes violence for people to get what they want, and the idea that people "need" to have alot of wealth in order to be happy and receive respect. They continue to pay men with guns to kill labour union leaders, peasant leaders, and other activists who are trying to make equality.

And now the U.S. and Colombia are using violence to attack the people of Venezuela, to try to stop the revolutin that the people of Venezuela are making: the USA has supported the violence of the 2002 attempted coup and the 2002-2003 economic sabotage campaign which caused widespread hardship for the people of Venezuela, the USA has given more than $50 million to rightwing political groups in Venezuela (many of which engage in violence to destabilise Venezuela)... and the USA supports their neo-colony, Colombia, as a proxy, whose ruling class has sent in Colombian paramilitaries who are now doing much intimidation, drug-dealing, and killing and other violence in Venezuela, especially in western Venezuela, near the border with Colombia.

The people of Western Venezuela did not elect democratic socialist governments, and so, Western Venezuela is controlled by capitalist governments. Under those governments, the police and other armed forces are often inefficient, corrupt, oppressive, and working for the rich against the working class. Those capitalist governments and police allow the Colombian paramilitaries to operate in their areas, because they share rightwing politics - the politics for the rich against the working class. And the result is that most of the violnce and murder in Venezuela is in the western provinces.

The democratic socialist government, first focussed on overcoming the coup and economic sabotage, focussed on buying strategic industries from rich people and bringing them under popular control, significantly growing the economy in a way that has improved the poor majority's standards of living alot, and focussed somewhat on reducing corruption. Now the democratic socialist government is focussing on one of the other issues that the people of Venezuela think is most important: reforming the police force and preventing crime, especially violent crime.

Here are 3 articles about this issue:

Venezuela Destroys 32,000 Firearms to Fight Crime

Preparations Continue for Initiation of Venezuelan National Police

Venezuela Launches New National Police Force to Transform Policing Model

Luisa Fox (144)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 8:25 am
Thank you for the information about Venezuela U.S. keeps under the radar. In the U.S. all the buzz political and otherwise is all about demonizing Chavez as a demagogue dictator rather then what appears as a man destined to transform his country into a democratic socialist government.

In some respects, the demonizing of Hugo Chavez by U.S. media more or less speaks to the fact that in a republican/democratic dichotomy anything left of center is "socialist", "commie", "scourge" and only the more progressive observers and voters are able to see through the facade.

Having said Simon, I will need a bit of time to digest the citations at the end of the article. It's good so read positive things about Hugo Chavez and his vision for Venezuela rather then the unsavory and frankly deceptive reporting most people read.

Enjoy your day. Today is Sunday, all day long....

Simon Wood (207)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 4:52 pm
Hi Luisa : )
Thanks for your comment : )

Oh, it's already Monday in Australia ; ) I guess you are in the western hemisphere....

Anyway, I am happy to see you promoting democratic socialism here in Care2, Luisa : )

Luisa Fox (144)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 4:56 pm
Simon wrote:
"Anyway, I am happy to see you promoting democratic socialism here in Care2, Luisa : )"

Easy Simon, you know every rightie on board will go after my head like piranas swimming on the Amazon river. But hey, bring it on!

Simon Wood (207)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 4:59 pm
I prefer piranhas to rightwingers, myself.

Simon Wood (207)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 5:00 pm
: P

Luisa Fox (144)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 5:05 pm
Note: I spelled piranas in Spanish. I forget sometimes and write in both languages. My bad.

Yeah, agree about rightwinger and piranas. Piranas are probably sweeter. ;~)

Simon Wood (207)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 5:18 pm
Spanglish rocks, Luisa ; ) Please don't apologise for yoru Spanish! I have alot of respect for Spanish myself - the Spanish people of the world are leading the way in socialism! : )

I spelt "piranhas" the Brasilian way ; ) - And I spelt "Brasilian" the Brasilian way, too - with an "s" ; ) Heheh!

Piranhas are sweeter? Do you mean the taste or the behaviour? Or were you being poetic and meaning both taste AND behaviour? Certainly, I find piranhas friendlier than rightwingers - piranhas are simply hungry and following their instincts to eat. Whereas rightwingers have the intellectual capacity to learn a healthier political way - i.e. to share out wealth and power more equally amongst humanity - but they refuse to learn about that healthier way.... I guess it is because they were never taught to share as children, or something... but they still always can listen and learn something new - if they CHOOSE TO... unlike piranhas, who are not biologically able to make such choices, so they are easy to forgive.... Piranhas are cuter too ; )

Simon Wood (207)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 5:20 pm
Oops, I mean the Spanish-SPEAKING people of the world are leading the way in socialism! : ) And socialism is our best hope for saving our planet and ourselves from climate change....

Past Member (0)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 5:21 pm
haha, well said Simon, Luisa, well said indeed! :)

The demonising of Chavez definitely extends to here in the UK as well, perhaps just as bad as the US. As you would expect from America's lap dog.

Simon Wood (207)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 5:28 pm
Thankyou Yasser : ) It's great to see you here : )

Oh : ( And here I was, thinking that AUSTRALIA (where I live) was the USA's lapdog... If the UK is the USA's lapdog, then I guess that makes Australia the USA's pet gerbil or something : (

Ah, yeah, Australia's capitalist media demonises Chavez and the revolutions in Latin America, too.... I think that the capitalist media of the entire world does that - because Chavez and the revolutions in Latin America threaten capitalism, they threaten the hoarding of wealth and power by the capitalist class....

Luisa Fox (144)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 5:55 pm
No offense here Yasser, but I think England is the USA lapdog and Tony Blair proved the point when he and Bush planned to invade Iraq before anyone ever had an inkling.

Australia I have found, emulates the US in many respects, but also had quite a bit of dissent among the more progressive elements in the culture. I've also noticed Australia has quite a standing with Libertarians some who are more or less anarchist. Not to mention, Australia has Rupert Murdock to be proud of right? Between the U.S., England, and Australia it's probably a toss up. No offense guys, just my take.

Past Member (0)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 6:08 pm
Oh no offense Luisa, not at all. I am not British, nor a British citizen :) I don't care if you insult my home, my country of birth or my country citizenship. I don't care for "countries" and "governments" at all, which is why I call myself an Anti-nationalist (if you've noticed from my profile). :)

And I Agree with you 100%. The UK will unquestionably do whatever the US does, or tells it to do. It might even be an insult to dogs. Since a dog would have some natural "common sense" or "instinct".

Luisa Fox (144)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 6:08 pm

Ten Americans Charged With Child Trafficking in Haiti; PM Calls It 'Kidnapping'

BTW guys, I started my first discussion on care2.
Check it out! I screwed up a little bit and left my html tabs open. Oh, well.


Simon Wood (207)
Sunday January 31, 2010, 9:47 pm
Oh, Luisa and Yasser, I don't mind anyone criticises Australia, or any other capitalist system, by the way ; )

By the way, both Australia and the UK had large demonstrations (e.g. more than a million in several demonstrations) in 2003 against invading Iraq, and a majority of people surveyed in Australia and the UK were found to be against invading Iraq, but our governments did it anyway....

So, I mean these 2 countries, Australia and the UK, do have significant dissidence, but not enough to engage in significant campaigns of civil diobedience, nor enough to vote for genuinely more progressive parties, like Australia's Greens Party or the UK's R.E.S.P.E.C.T. and the UK's Liberal Democratic Party (and certainly not enough to vote for socialist parties)....

And in the USA, people campaigned with a significant civil disobedience campaign to end the Vietnam War, and there were Martin Luther King Jr, Malcolm X, the Black Panthers and other radical groups in the 60s and 70s, that I for one, find inspiring.... But it seems to me that many of the people who supported those movements have "sold out", been coopted by the cap[italist system, and haven't taught their children or any other younger people to challenge the system to any significant extent....

Yasser wrote: "I don't care if you insult my home, my country of birth or my country citizenship. I don't care for "countries" and "governments" at all, which is why I call myself an Anti-nationalist (if you've noticed from my profile). :)"

Wow! That sounds like me, too! : )

And Luisa, good on you for posting that news article! : )

Phyllis P (232)
Friday February 5, 2010, 6:27 pm

Simon Wood (207)
Friday February 5, 2010, 6:54 pm
Good on you for noting this news, Phyllis : )

Luisa Fox (144)
Friday February 5, 2010, 8:46 pm
And good for you for posting this Simon. ;-)

Simon Wood (207)
Friday February 5, 2010, 11:48 pm
Thankyou for your kind words, Luisa : )

Simon Wood (207)
Saturday February 27, 2010, 2:17 am
In response to what Patricia said ("The USA does not control these institutions.", etc...). I just found another fact to disprove Patricia's claims. Here is the fact:

the US government holds the sole veto power in the IMF and the World Bank!!!

Simon Wood (207)
Saturday February 27, 2010, 2:27 am
My point is this:

citizens of the USA, please take responsibility for what your democraticaly-elected government does - including the U.S. military attacks, invasions, occupations and oppression by propping up oppressive regimes in numerous countries (including Iraq, Afghanistan, Honduras, Colombia and Haiti), and also including the decisions made by the U.S.-dominated IMF and U.S.-dominated World Bank.

Luisa Fox (144)
Saturday February 27, 2010, 3:17 am

Let the people speak...
Please join me in this discussion and tell us, what would Howard Zinn say based on his life's work. In particular "Let the People Speak". about Latin American and other pressing issues of the day.


Tim Redfern (581)
Saturday February 27, 2010, 11:55 am
Simon, preferring piranhas to right-wingers
makes sense to me.........
piranhas do less damage!
(hee-hee-hee!) :-)

Simon Wood (207)
Saturday February 27, 2010, 10:55 pm
: )

Elaine B (21)
Tuesday April 6, 2010, 5:28 pm
Simon, I am trying to find you! Have you left Care2? Did you get my email??
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